White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
And away we go...

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 05-21-2017, 09:58 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 14,457
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Thornburg actually had a good year from start to finish last year. When has Kahnle done that?

The Sox don't *need* someone to take Kahnle or Swarzak "off their hands." It's not as if they are sucking up huge quantities of payroll. And, again, the unanswered question is: If you trade those guys, who pitches the second half of the year? We all agree that prospects are not to be rushed, correct?

And, it's questionable whether the Sox traded "a good prospect" for Shields. I hate that trade like everyone else, but only because Shields is a waste of money and a waste of a roster spot, not because the Sox gave up a big piece of their future to get him.
Tatis is a top 50/100 prospect; if we can't admit that that has value then the entire rebuild is for naught.
Yes, I should have said "If Kahnle keeps pitching this way" - then he will be a carbon copy of Thornburg.
There is nobody on this roster that has to be moved in the sense of relieving payroll pressure. But there are many that need to be moved, Swarzak included (this isn't his first good year; he's just been inconsistent, like most middle relievers), in order to get some value for them and improve the farm.
Because that's how winning organizations are built....and that's what the Sox are finally trying to do. And that requires a lot of farm talent because some develop slower than others (a lot of good players mature late), some never develop at all.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-21-2017, 10:10 AM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 53,081
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Tatis is a top 50/100 prospect; if we can't admit that that has value then the entire rebuild is for naught.
Really? So if people disagree about the value of a prospect that was traded a few years ago then we might as well just bag the current team plan?

Isn't that a tad overly dramatic?

Also, Was Tatis a 50-100 prospect when he was traded? That would be a key part of the discussion...
__________________

Riding shotgun on the Sox bandwagon since before there was an Internet...
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-21-2017, 10:58 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 14,457
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Really? So if people disagree about the value of a prospect that was traded a few years ago then we might as well just bag the current team plan?

Isn't that a tad overly dramatic?

Also, Was Tatis a 50-100 prospect when he was traded? That would be a key part of the discussion...
Of course it's being overly dramatic.
But a top 100 prospect has intrinsic value - if the Sox don't like him, trade him to somebody who does and for someone who undervalues who you like.
the Sox essentially did that with 2 young major leaguers - Santiago and Reed - my 2 favorite Rick Hahn trades. Works the same with prospects.

Last edited by Tragg; 05-21-2017 at 11:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-21-2017, 11:33 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago - South Loop
Posts: 4,233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Also, Was Tatis a 50-100 prospect when he was traded? That would be a key part of the discussion...
He was definitely NOT a top 50-100 prospect at the time of the trade, not even close. He was mentioned by one (bad) high profile prospect expert this offseason as top 100.

However, Tatis is killing it in A ball right now so he's going to be in all of the top 100 lists at mid-season and deservedly so.
__________________
<a href=http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=3256 target=_blank>http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/v...achmentid=3256</a>

March 16, 2005 - Another happy Sox fan joins the party!
July 6, 2012 - 7 years later he's still part of it...
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-21-2017, 12:29 PM
JB98's Avatar
JB98 JB98 is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Crystal Lake, IL
Posts: 29,830
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
The Chris Becks, Michael Ynoas, Gregory Infantes, and David Holmbergs of the world would pitch, and they would look bad doing it, and that's OK.
They're all going to be here, too. You need seven relief pitchers.

The bottom line is, no contending team is going to say, "Ohhh, I need to acquire Anthony Swarzak and Tommy Kahnle to pitch in high leverage for us in the playoffs!"

These guys are actually not much higher on the totem pole than the Ynoas and Holmbergs of the world. ****, Kahnle started this season in the minor leagues. Swarzak was a nonroster invitee. Good for them that they both have had a good six weeks, but this notion that the Sox are going to get anything of significance for them in July is preposterous.

Nothing has really changed. Quintana is still the big trade chip. Robertson has value. If Jones gets healthy, he has value. If Frazier pulls his **** together, the Sox can probably get something for him. I don't think anyone will give a good prospect for a half-season of Melky Cabrera, but I wouldn't count it out. Holland and Gonzalez, ehh, maybe. We'll see. Those are your trade options.

You people seem to think I believe the Sox need to keep Swarzak and Kahnle in order to win second-half games. Bull****. They are going to lose no matter who is on the roster. But I think Swarzak and Kahnle are on that list of players who stick around as roster filler, and protect prospects from having to be rushed to the big leagues prematurely.

Some people here have stars in their eyes if they think every player who has a decent six weeks suddenly has trade value.
__________________
JB's attendance record:
2004: 14-5; 2005: 16-8; 2006: 19-10; 2007: 8-12; 2008: 15-7; 2009: 6-13; 2010: 12-11; 2011: 9-8; 2012: 11-7; 2013: 8-9; 2014: 7-9; 2015: 10-10; 2016: 13-10. 2017: 4-5 Total: 152-124.
Next game: Aug. 27 vs. Detroit

R
ead my baseball blog: http://thebaseballkid98.blogspot.com/

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-21-2017, 12:53 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeview
Posts: 21,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Some people here have stars in their eyes if they think every player who has a decent six weeks suddenly has trade value.
Preach it, my man.
__________________
Ridiculousness across all sports:

(1) "You have no valid opinion because you never played the game."
(2) "Stats are irrelevant. This guy just doesn't know how to win."
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-21-2017, 01:03 PM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 53,081
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Kahnle's had more than just a "good 6 week run" he's been lights freaking out with a 0.81 WHIP and 29 K in 16 IP.

If he does that for another month of course teams are going to be interested especially with his velocity. Personally I'd actually prefer the Sox hang on to him though he's got tons of eligibility left.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-21-2017, 03:03 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 7,918
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98
They're all going to be here, too. You need seven relief pitchers.
Enter Brian Clark, Matt Purke, Juan Minaya, some bad waiver claims, etc.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and letís fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-23-2017, 07:35 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Deep in the heart of Dixie
Posts: 5,219
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
They're all going to be here, too. You need seven relief pitchers.

The bottom line is, no contending team is going to say, "Ohhh, I need to acquire Anthony Swarzak and Tommy Kahnle to pitch in high leverage for us in the playoffs!"

These guys are actually not much higher on the totem pole than the Ynoas and Holmbergs of the world. ****, Kahnle started this season in the minor leagues. Swarzak was a nonroster invitee. Good for them that they both have had a good six weeks, but this notion that the Sox are going to get anything of significance for them in July is preposterous.

Nothing has really changed. Quintana is still the big trade chip. Robertson has value. If Jones gets healthy, he has value. If Frazier pulls his **** together, the Sox can probably get something for him. I don't think anyone will give a good prospect for a half-season of Melky Cabrera, but I wouldn't count it out. Holland and Gonzalez, ehh, maybe. We'll see. Those are your trade options.

You people seem to think I believe the Sox need to keep Swarzak and Kahnle in order to win second-half games. Bull****. They are going to lose no matter who is on the roster. But I think Swarzak and Kahnle are on that list of players who stick around as roster filler, and protect prospects from having to be rushed to the big leagues prematurely.

Some people here have stars in their eyes if they think every player who has a decent six weeks suddenly has trade value.
Another solid offering as per your usual.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-23-2017, 08:15 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 18,926
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
They're all going to be here, too. You need seven relief pitchers.

The bottom line is, no contending team is going to say, "Ohhh, I need to acquire Anthony Swarzak and Tommy Kahnle to pitch in high leverage for us in the playoffs!"

These guys are actually not much higher on the totem pole than the Ynoas and Holmbergs of the world. ****, Kahnle started this season in the minor leagues. Swarzak was a nonroster invitee. Good for them that they both have had a good six weeks, but this notion that the Sox are going to get anything of significance for them in July is preposterous.

Nothing has really changed. Quintana is still the big trade chip. Robertson has value. If Jones gets healthy, he has value. If Frazier pulls his **** together, the Sox can probably get something for him. I don't think anyone will give a good prospect for a half-season of Melky Cabrera, but I wouldn't count it out. Holland and Gonzalez, ehh, maybe. We'll see. Those are your trade options.

You people seem to think I believe the Sox need to keep Swarzak and Kahnle in order to win second-half games. Bull****. They are going to lose no matter who is on the roster. But I think Swarzak and Kahnle are on that list of players who stick around as roster filler, and protect prospects from having to be rushed to the big leagues prematurely.

Some people here have stars in their eyes if they think every player who has a decent six weeks suddenly has trade value.
I don't think they have built tremendous trade value by themselves after 6 weeks, but if they continue performing well - which admittedly is a long shot particularly once they start facing teams for a second and third time against division rivals - they might have value as an add-in to a trade of a more established veteran that could sweeten the pot for a better prospect in return.

I'm hoping Hahn can find ways to package our remaining veterans to maximize the return; when it comes to prospects I'm interested in quality over quantity.
__________________
The universe is the practical joke of the General at the expense of the Particular, quoth Frater Perdurabo, and laughed. The disciples nearest him wept, seeing the Universal Sorrow. Others laughed, seeing the Universal Joke. Others wept. Others laughed. Others wept because they couldn't see the Joke, and others laughed lest they should be thought not to see the Joke. But though FRATER laughed openly, he wept secretly; and really he neither laughed nor wept. Nor did he mean what he said.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.