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  #16  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:30 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
True - it will probably take another year to have a decent value for him. But he can get some closing work once Robertson is moved along.
Relievers have short shelf lives.
Agreed. I would be on board if he's necessary as a pot sweetener to land a top shelf prospect like Kyle Tucker or Victor Robles along with a package of B/B- guys.
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  #17  
Old 05-19-2017, 08:12 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98
I feel as if there's a failure to understand that guys such as Kahnle and Swarzak are not going to be flipped for prospects at the deadline. Even if they have good first halves, these are pitchers with a track record of mediocrity -- at best. They have more value to the Sox as roster filler than they do in a trade.

The Sox can get something for Robertson. The Sox can get something for Jones, if he gets healthy. Kahnle and Swarzak are guys you keep to pick up the slack after you deal the guys that actually do have some value.

We all have to remember, someone has to pitch the second half of the season, and the consensus is we don't want to rush prospects. Well, that means keeping some of the marginal vets around for the whole season.
You're not going to get anything in the way of prospects, but you still trade older, more expensive roster filler for younger, cheaper roster filler when you get the chance. Kahnle will be entering arbitration next year. Trade him for whatever value you can get (either as a stand-alone trade or as an addition with Robertson or Quintana) and replace him next year with someone who has zero service time and is out of minor league options. Besides, it's a sign of goodwill between this rebuilding organization and prospective free agent acquisitions that we will find you a landing spot in a pennant race if you perform well enough.
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  #18  
Old 05-19-2017, 08:40 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
The 3-4 weeks of any glimmer of thought that the rebuild somehow wouldn't need to continue in earnest is gone. I watch when I can, but I don't think I've caught a full game other than the one I've attended. I'm in full support of the franchise's direction, but I miss caring about the Sox' results.
What's been going on isn't evidence that a rebuild is necessary. The White Sox did nothing in the offseason to improve. What is going on is what a rebuild looks like and will probably look like for at least the next decade unless the White Sox work to build a winner instead of collecting prospects other teams are willing to give up for players who actually have shown they can play major league baseball.
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:16 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog
What's been going on isn't evidence that a rebuild is necessary. The White Sox did nothing in the offseason to improve. What is going on is what a rebuild looks like and will probably look like for at least the next decade unless the White Sox work to build a winner instead of collecting prospects other teams are willing to give up for players who actually have shown they can play major league baseball.
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  #20  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:20 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Covey goes six innings, allows four runs, five hits and three walks. Typical outing. His ERA is now "down" to seven and a half.
I've given him a nickname: Dylan OyVey.
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  #21  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:36 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
It's really pointless to complain about the team losing and Dylan Covey and the White Sox not being relevant if you believe in the rebuild myth. It's frustrating to see fans who back it complain about the reality of it.
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  #22  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:42 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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It's really pointless to complain about the team losing and Dylan Covey and the White Sox not being relevant if you believe in the rebuild myth. It's frustrating to see fans who back it complain about the reality of it.
The rebuild is a "myth"?
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:46 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi
The rebuild is a "myth"?
It's self-parody at this point.
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  #24  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:48 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
What is going on is what a rebuild looks like and will probably look like for at least the next decade unless the White Sox work to build a winner instead of collecting prospects other teams are willing to give up for players who actually have shown they can play major league baseball.
So, trading for prospects is not how to build a winner?
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  #25  
Old 05-19-2017, 10:03 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Actually he has a point. If you're gung-ho about the rebuild why complain? There is going to be a lot of pain and it may be over a longer period of time than you would care to think. Not only that but if the Sox trade every player suggested by posters here it will be ugly beyond compare before it even gets back to just plain bad. I just don't see anyone on the roster bringing the Sox a big "haul." Not even Q. As for the question of myth or reality at this point to me it appears to be in suspended mode. We'll see what happens at the trade deadline. The Sox painted themselves into a corner with continued management incompetence and now they have to "rebuild" with the same group that led the team into what we have now. I also note "successful" rebuilders like the Pirates and Royals look like they need another major overhaul. What you have left now maybe is just the Astros. Can the Sox "rebuild" like they apparently have done? We're going to find out, but in the near future expect to be entertained by the likes of Covey, Pelfrey and a similar cast of characters among the position players.
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  #26  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:17 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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I could have just made a sarcastic post ripping on people who were calling for the team to be good and possibly even be buyers after 3 weeks of the season, but I instead wrote the above. And even that got criticized.

Tough room.
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  #27  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:49 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
What's been going on isn't evidence that a rebuild is necessary. The White Sox did nothing in the offseason to improve. .
They had to rebuild because the build-up failed.
The same guy who made the clever Eaton trade and the well-intended Davidson trade, then started looking under rocks for any and every declining veteran he could find to fill half the roster. It never made any sense. And it certainly didn't work, and to go through another year of that would have been ridiculous.
Given that JR wasn't going to bring in a fresh FO, I credit the incumbent FO with the awareness that they had to switch approaches.

Last edited by Tragg; 05-20-2017 at 12:28 AM.
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  #28  
Old 05-20-2017, 01:33 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Rich Hill - yes, a starter, but basically terrible until his late 30s.
Tyler Thornburg is a carbon copy of Kahnle.
Mariners got someone to take Mark Lowe off their hands a few years back
Kevin jepsen
There are many others.
And not to remind, but a certain party traded a good prospect for james shields.
The Brewers have expeditiously cleared out their veteran riff-raff, and most of it before their expiration date. Heck they even moved Moldanado for a nice catching prospect. Sox aren't helped that Frazier and Melky aren't very good (or at least aren't playing like it), but the books need to be cleared.
Thornburg actually had a good year from start to finish last year. When has Kahnle done that?

The Sox don't *need* someone to take Kahnle or Swarzak "off their hands." It's not as if they are sucking up huge quantities of payroll. And, again, the unanswered question is: If you trade those guys, who pitches the second half of the year? We all agree that prospects are not to be rushed, correct?

And, it's questionable whether the Sox traded "a good prospect" for Shields. I hate that trade like everyone else, but only because Shields is a waste of money and a waste of a roster spot, not because the Sox gave up a big piece of their future to get him.
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  #29  
Old 05-20-2017, 01:43 PM
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Chez Chez is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I could have just made a sarcastic post ripping on people who were calling for the team to be good and possibly even be buyers after 3 weeks of the season, but I instead wrote the above. And even that got criticized.

Tough room.
I got it and appreciated it.
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  #30  
Old 05-21-2017, 02:49 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
If you trade those guys, who pitches the second half of the year?
The Chris Becks, Michael Ynoas, Gregory Infantes, and David Holmbergs of the world would pitch, and they would look bad doing it, and that's OK.
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