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  #16  
Old 06-12-2017, 11:52 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I completely disagree that 2005 was somehow "easy"- he was a great manager that season- they went wire to wire in 1st place, and then went 11-1 in the post season- he deserves all the credit in the world for pulling that off (remember- no stable closer all season, went from Shingo to Dustin to a minor league call up from AA- Jenks).

He was the ideal combination of "Ozzie" with the discipline (that season) of one of his mentors- Bobby Cox....but after that I think he became way too full of himself and lost any discipline he showed that season- after 2008, not a very good manager at all.
I agree with your assessment. I have said it before, the way the situation played out was sad. It reminds me of some of the lines in Kipling's classic poem If.
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  #17  
Old 06-12-2017, 01:21 PM
wdelaney72 wdelaney72 is offline
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If Dusty Baker can make a return to managing an MLB team, Ozzie can, as well.
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  #18  
Old 06-12-2017, 01:53 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
I agree with your assessment. I have said it before, the way the situation played out was sad. It reminds me of some of the lines in Kipling's classic poem If.
His dynamic reminded me of the dynamic with Ditka- breath of fresh air, breaks up a losing mentality, everything clicks and he wins a championship....but then....starts to believe his own press clippings, hubris kicks in, and a gradual, steady decline occurs.
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  #19  
Old 06-12-2017, 03:43 PM
jdm2662 jdm2662 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
His dynamic reminded me of the dynamic with Ditka- breath of fresh air, breaks up a losing mentality, everything clicks and he wins a championship....but then....starts to believe his own press clippings, hubris kicks in, and a gradual, steady decline occurs.
The two of them had very similar careers:

Both left their teams on not the best terms.

Both ended up in coaching under top notch coaches/managers. (Bobby Cox and Jack McKeon for Ozzie, Tom Landry for Ditka).

Both were questionable hires.

Both found big success early.

Their acts were lovable when their teams were winning. It got old quick when they weren't.

Both of their egos went through the roof and got bigger than their own teams.

The big difference is, most fans were tired of Ozzie in the end (and he quit on the team). Ditka still got plenty of love because of disdain of the front office (which a lot of it was deserved), and Ditka never quit on the team or ever bash the fan base like Ozzie. (I personally got tired of Ditka's act about ten or so years ago. These days, I just see him as a cartoon character).
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  #20  
Old 06-12-2017, 06:48 PM
johnny bench johnny bench is offline
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Ozzie already had a second chance, in Miami. He's not welcome back there either.
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  #21  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:08 AM
slavko slavko is offline
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Originally Posted by johnny bench View Post
Ozzie already had a second chance, in Miami. He's not welcome back there either.
Got paid off 3 years of a 4 year contract just to go away. If anyone hires him again it'll be on a one year deal. (semi-teal)
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  #22  
Old 06-13-2017, 11:35 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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For all the good things he did for the Sox he quit on them (remember the pregame press conference before that Detroit game at home?).

Very hard to forget about that if you are the owner or G.M. of another team.
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  #23  
Old 06-13-2017, 12:19 PM
jdm2662 jdm2662 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
For all the good things he did for the Sox he quit on them (remember the pregame press conference before that Detroit game at home?).

Very hard to forget about that if you are the owner or G.M. of another team.
I think his Miami stint sealed his fate. It was beyond bad and his behavior was inexcusable. And of course, their record that season doesn't help, either...

The local media loves Ozzie and are always going to write this yearly article to get him back into baseball. He should be one of the most beloved figures in White Sox history, but he isn't. He did this to himself.
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  #24  
Old 06-13-2017, 12:54 PM
Rocky Soprano Rocky Soprano is offline
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Thanks for 05 but if I never see him again, I sure as hell would not mind it one bit.
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  #25  
Old 06-13-2017, 01:46 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
I agree with your assessment. I have said it before, the way the situation played out was sad. It reminds me of some of the lines in Kipling's classic poem If.
I think both Ozzie AND Kenny started to buy their own hype after 2009. There was a lot of talk about Kenny being the ballsy-iest GM around, and I think he believed that and making moves that would reflect that reputation.

As for Ozzie, I thought he was a good manager and generally got the most out of his teams but his schtick got old.
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  #26  
Old 06-13-2017, 02:07 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I think both Ozzie AND Kenny started to buy their own hype after 2009. There was a lot of talk about Kenny being the ballsy-iest GM around, and I think he believed that and making moves that would reflect that reputation.

As for Ozzie, I thought he was a good manager and generally got the most out of his teams but his schtick got old.
The difference is that Williams always kissed the ring of the one that feed him, Ozwaldo didnt.
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  #27  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:39 PM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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If I was a front office man and was considering a hire of Guillen, I'd give him the following warnings:

If your sons ever show up in the locker room, even once, you're fired.

If you ever shoot your mouth off about politics, you're fired.

If you get in verbal arguments with fans on social media, you're fired.

If you start managing the team like it is the 2005 Sox, you're fired.

If you look at me the wrong way, you're fired.

Now, do you want the job?
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  #28  
Old 06-14-2017, 01:34 AM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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Ozzie's matured? Cool. About time for a 53 year old man.

You know who I bet hasn't? His son Oney.

You want Ozzie back, you gotta deal with his kids again.

I'm fine with Ozzie getting a second chance as a manager, as long as it isn't with the Sox.
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  #29  
Old 06-14-2017, 10:11 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan H View Post
If I was a front office man and was considering a hire of Guillen, I'd give him the following warnings:

If your sons ever show up in the locker room, even once, you're fired.

If you ever shoot your mouth off about politics, you're fired.

If you get in verbal arguments with fans on social media, you're fired.

If you start managing the team like it is the 2005 Sox, you're fired.

If you look at me the wrong way, you're fired.

Now, do you want the job?
If you start managing the team like the one that went wire-to-wire would be a fireable offense?

I think that Ozzie was actually kind of ahead of the curve in recognizing how the offensive aspect of the game changed after the steroid era and more of an emphasis on defense as well.
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  #30  
Old 06-14-2017, 06:17 PM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
If you start managing the team like the one that went wire-to-wire would be a fireable offense?
Yes, I think that because there was only one 2005 team. Ozzie kept managing the Sox as if they had the same players. You manage the team you have at the moment, not stay stuck in a time warp.

I'm with many others. If another team wants to give him a try, that's fine. But I think his so-called truth telling was BS. Time to move on already. We don't need to be a time warp, either. 2005 was a long time ago.
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