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  #61  
Old 09-02-2017, 08:09 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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It's one thing when people don't like the idea of going through a rebuild. I disagree, but I can understand it. But when people refuse to understand how a rebuild works, even when it's explained to the over and over, that I just don't get.
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  #62  
Old 09-02-2017, 08:52 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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It's not like the rebuild plan is difficult to grasp.

Look, here I am in June 2013, laying out the plan that eventually came to pass:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/v...&postcount=129
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  #63  
Old 09-02-2017, 09:28 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
It's not like the rebuild plan is difficult to grasp.

Look, here I am in June 2013, laying out the plan that eventually came to pass:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/v...&postcount=129
You're entitled to ring your own bell. IMHO you are one of the top fan analysts I've ever come across and have said as much on more than one occasion here. It's too bad the Sox didn't follow your advice in 2013. I also don't think the Sox got the kind of talent for Sale that you posited he was worth. Still here we are, and we have to wait and see how this all pans out. I don't share the optimism that you and some others have, but I'm not expecting or conceding failure either. I just wish the Sox management had not been so incompetent for so many years, and had decided to shift gears when you made that post in 2013. While not agreeing with his every view I fully understand the anger, angst and frustration of Golden Sox. He is not alone. Lastly, I don't know what kind of work you do, but I hope it's one that allows you to utilize your abilities. You're one of those rare birds who can see both the forest and the trees.
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  #64  
Old 09-03-2017, 09:20 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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Originally Posted by anewman35 View Post
1. We suck. This year. This was always the plan. If we're still horrible in 2 or 3 years, that's when you can complain.

2. Most of those "salary dumps" of relief pitchers saved a few hundred thousand each. Even IF that was part of the reason (it wasn't), what part of "a chance of a good player when we might need one is better than a good (or let's be honest, mostly just ok) player when we definitely don't" do you not understand?

3. Shields was brought in at a different time when the team was going for it. Holland was brought in because SOMEBODY has to pitch, and if we got lucky we could flip him (we didn't). Spending money on relievers next year would be incredibly wasteful. Keep in mind that a few of the relievers you're so mad about us trading were brought in for basically nothing.
Trading David Robertson to NY saved the White Sox millions of dollars with his long term contract. Tyler Clippard was the only player who we received who was making any money. He was moved to Houston for cash. More money saved for the White Sox.
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  #65  
Old 09-03-2017, 09:34 AM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
Trading David Robertson to NY saved the White Sox millions of dollars with his long term contract. Tyler Clippard was the only player who we received who was making any money. He was moved to Houston for cash. More money saved for the White Sox.
David Robertson was traded as part of a package that got us a top 50 MLB prospect in return. We traded something of value, we got something of value. A salary dump is when you trade something high priced and get nothing good back because you're just making the other team take your salary. That's not what happened here because, again, top 50 prospect. If Blake Rutherford is a starting outfielder on a division winning team in 4 years, will that have made the trade worth it?

Clippard is the ONE move that you could say was Salary Dump-ish - but you have to understand that there's no indication we ever even WANTED Clippard, the Yankees didn't want him and they were the ones salary dumping on to us. Clippard would have done nothing for us except possibly help us win a handful more games this season, and as much as you hate to hear this, winning games this season is actually not to out benefit at this point. I also remember seeing/hearing speculation that moving Clippard to Houston was actually sort of us trying to do a nice thing for Clippard, because it sucks as a veteran pitcher to have to move from a contender to a last place team like us.

(Also, the money involved with Clippard was like a million dollars. Lots to us, nothing to a MLB team. A classic salary dump is giving away a player making tens of millions for not a lot because of the salary. Not this.
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  #66  
Old 09-03-2017, 09:43 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
He doesn't want to not pay attention to the product on the field. Reminds me of when, as a little kid, I would think the Sox still had a chance like 20 games out if they weren't mathematically eliminated. You won't convince him otherwise.
Ahhh, the good old days. Sadly, I was like that until my mid-20's. Now, four years later, I am enjoying the process. I have had far more fun following white Sox baseball this year than any year since 2012. There's a lot of Intrigue in the minors and it has reinvigorated my love for the franchise. I intend to keep attention to the minors for the rest of my life. It is such a fun part of the game that I never explored before.
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  #67  
Old 09-03-2017, 09:43 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
Trading David Robertson to NY saved the White Sox millions of dollars with his long term contract. Tyler Clippard was the only player who we received who was making any money. He was moved to Houston for cash. More money saved for the White Sox.
Rutherford may not have value to you, but he has value to MLB teams. He was valued by the Yankees. He was valued by the Sox. He is valued by professional talent evaluators.
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  #68  
Old 09-03-2017, 09:53 AM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Another fun fact about the Clippard "Salary Dump" - if trading him lost a few more games, it's very possible that xoule be the difference between third worst and worst. Worst gets to use more money to sign draft prospects. The value of that difference varies by year, but depending on how far we dropped it could allow us to spend millions more on the draft (and there's no reason to think we wouldn't use that money). So, basically, "dumping" Clippard could lead to the Sox spendig MORE money...
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  #69  
Old 09-03-2017, 09:57 AM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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An analogy (let's see if this works): You have a big nice house. There's nothing wrong with it. But your kids moves out, you don't need the space. Or you want to move to a different area. You sell the house at fair market value and buy a smaller place that's cheaper. Yes, you made money on the deal, but that wasn't the point, you just wanted the new place and that's how it worked out.
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  #70  
Old 09-03-2017, 10:14 AM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
Trading David Robertson to NY saved the White Sox millions of dollars with his long term contract. Tyler Clippard was the only player who we received who was making any money. He was moved to Houston for cash. More money saved for the White Sox.
So what? You continue to completely, and as far as I can tell, purposefully, miss the point. You want to ignore the obvious and claim it is all a JR conspiracy? Go for it. Apparently no one, including the obvious facts, can convince you otherwise.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Hahn has done an exceedingly good job of starting the rebuild and gathering in a ton of young talent. The results so far have been very good and it appears as if the good days will be here sooner than expected.

Sorry you are bitter and disappointed but the I for one am very excited. The Sox are going to be a very good team in a couple years and are already growing as an exciting team to watch now.

Let the kids play!
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  #71  
Old 09-03-2017, 10:43 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
So what? You continue to completely, and as far as I can tell, purposefully, miss the point. You want to ignore the obvious and claim it is all a JR conspiracy? Go for it. Apparently no one, including the obvious facts, can convince you otherwise.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Hahn has done an exceedingly good job of starting the rebuild and gathering in a ton of young talent. The results so far have been very good and it appears as if the good days will be here sooner than expected.

Sorry you are bitter and disappointed but the I for one am very excited. The Sox are going to be a very good team in a couple years and are already growing as an exciting team to watch now.

Let the kids play!
At this point, it's purposeful and trolling.
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  #72  
Old 09-03-2017, 10:52 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Ps: this board has been as active as it has ever been in the last five years. I think the rebuild, and the product in the minors, is bringing us back.
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  #73  
Old 09-03-2017, 11:45 AM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
Ps: this board has been as active as it has ever been in the last five years. I think the rebuild, and the product in the minors, is bringing us back.
Short of a contending team, nothing is more exciting to talk about than a future contending team.
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  #74  
Old 09-03-2017, 12:28 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anewman35
Leury to the DL, Rymer Liriano up. Why bother with the DL move?
Insurance claim?
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  #75  
Old 09-03-2017, 12:37 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew C White View Post
So what? You continue to completely, and as far as I can tell, purposefully, miss the point. You want to ignore the obvious and claim it is all a JR conspiracy? Go for it. Apparently no one, including the obvious facts, can convince you otherwise.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Hahn has done an exceedingly good job of starting the rebuild and gathering in a ton of young talent. The results so far have been very good and it appears as if the good days will be here sooner than expected.

Sorry you are bitter and disappointed but the I for one am very excited. The Sox are going to be a very good team in a couple years and are already growing as an exciting team to watch now.

Let the kids play!
Very well said.

Let the "Flat Earth Society" types do what they do and say what they say but let's not lose any sleep over it moving forward.
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