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  #46  
Old 09-02-2017, 12:36 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
And let Fulmer start, too. He needs innings to work through his issues, and there aren't any more innings to be had in Charlotte after this weekend.
I don't know if I'd go that far. GoldenSox was right about one thing: Fulmer couldn't get anyone out in the minors and doesn't deserve another sniff at Chicago until he does. I think it's counterproductive to keep giving him those opportunities.
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  #47  
Old 09-02-2017, 01:25 PM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I don't know if I'd go that far. GoldenSox was right about one thing: Fulmer couldn't get anyone out in the minors and doesn't deserve another sniff at Chicago until he does. I think it's counterproductive to keep giving him those opportunities.
I have no problem giving him a batter or two or maybe an inning in low pressure situations but I would be opposed to giving him a start with Chicago. He is clearly not ready. Frankly, if it was up to me, I would send him to Winston-Salem next year under the tutelage of Rich Dotson to totally re-work his delivery. Until he straightens that mess out I don't think he'll be much of a relief pitcher either. If it takes him longer, so be it. He is not going to be able to play in the majors as it is right now.
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  #48  
Old 09-02-2017, 02:10 PM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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1) The White Sox are no longer "mired in mediocrity". We are now hopelessly in last place.
2) Steve Stone has said numerous times he thinks our starting pitching might become real good, real fast. If you think about it-Kopech, Rodon, Giolito and Lopez could become a real good starting rotation in 2018. Hahn has traded off the entire bullpen and look who they have in the bullpen now. The trades of the bullpen pitchers were simply salary dumps. I doubt if any of the players the team received will ever be productive in the MLB. I think all those guys were moved to simply save money.
3) I originally thought the team might start spending some money this off season in free agency. I thought the perfect signing would be to bring back Addison Reed. He's still young (29 years old) and he sure is better than what the team has in the bullpen now. Then when I read that Reed might be getting $10-$12 million a year for at least 3 three years, I realized that is not going to happen here. Hahn will waste MILLIONS of dollars on Holland, Shields and others but he won't sign anybody decent.
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  #49  
Old 09-02-2017, 02:48 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
1) The White Sox are no longer "mired in mediocrity". We are now hopelessly in last place.
2) Steve Stone has said numerous times he thinks our starting pitching might become real good, real fast. If you think about it-Kopech, Rodon, Giolito and Lopez could become a real good starting rotation in 2018. Hahn has traded off the entire bullpen and look who they have in the bullpen now. The trades of the bullpen pitchers were simply salary dumps. I doubt if any of the players the team received will ever be productive in the MLB. I think all those guys were moved to simply save money.
3) I originally thought the team might start spending some money this off season in free agency. I thought the perfect signing would be to bring back Addison Reed. He's still young (29 years old) and he sure is better than what the team has in the bullpen now. Then when I read that Reed might be getting $10-$12 million a year for at least 3 three years, I realized that is not going to happen here. Hahn will waste MILLIONS of dollars on Holland, Shields and others but he won't sign anybody decent.
1. We suck. This year. This was always the plan. If we're still horrible in 2 or 3 years, that's when you can complain.

2. Most of those "salary dumps" of relief pitchers saved a few hundred thousand each. Even IF that was part of the reason (it wasn't), what part of "a chance of a good player when we might need one is better than a good (or let's be honest, mostly just ok) player when we definitely don't" do you not understand?

3. Shields was brought in at a different time when the team was going for it. Holland was brought in because SOMEBODY has to pitch, and if we got lucky we could flip him (we didn't). Spending money on relievers next year would be incredibly wasteful. Keep in mind that a few of the relievers you're so mad about us trading were brought in for basically nothing.
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  #50  
Old 09-02-2017, 02:57 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
1) The White Sox are no longer "mired in mediocrity". We are now hopelessly in last place.
2) Steve Stone has said numerous times he thinks our starting pitching might become real good, real fast. If you think about it-Kopech, Rodon, Giolito and Lopez could become a real good starting rotation in 2018. Hahn has traded off the entire bullpen and look who they have in the bullpen now. The trades of the bullpen pitchers were simply salary dumps. I doubt if any of the players the team received will ever be productive in the MLB. I think all those guys were moved to simply save money.
3) I originally thought the team might start spending some money this off season in free agency. I thought the perfect signing would be to bring back Addison Reed. He's still young (29 years old) and he sure is better than what the team has in the bullpen now. Then when I read that Reed might be getting $10-$12 million a year for at least 3 three years, I realized that is not going to happen here. Hahn will waste MILLIONS of dollars on Holland, Shields and others but he won't sign anybody decent.
Stone's probably right. And I think our rotation will be Rodon-Kopech-Hansen-Giolito-Lopez by 2019. Yes, we'll need a bullpen, but we have other pitchers coming through the system like Cease, Burdi (should be back in 2019), Adams, Clarkin, Stephens, Guerrero, and more. Some of them will slot into the bullpen; we can get other relievers through free agency or trades of surplus prospects.
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  #51  
Old 09-02-2017, 04:53 PM
shes shes is offline
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How in the world does a salary dump bring back a consensus top 100 prospect like Rutherford (top 50 according to several publications)?
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  #52  
Old 09-02-2017, 05:06 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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There's not a post about last nights game, so I will make my comments here. Last nights game, on a very nice Friday night drew a whopping 13,585 paid customers, the lowest attendance in MLB last night. Believe me there were a lot less people there. I don't think they had 10,000 fans there. Maybe the low attendance was for the best. The game was PATHETIC. I knew this season was going to be bad, but it keeps getting worse. Hahn recently gutted our bullpen which was nothing but a big salary dump. The team now has a bullpen that features Bummer and Fullmer. I keep reading how good our Minor League system is and yet they bring up these 2 guys who can't get anybody out. It amazes me that the team keeps bringing up Fullmer. He couldn't get anybody out in the Minors and yet they keep promoting him. I think one of the great myths in this city is how much JR loves baseball. Bruce Levine in particular keeps saying that the only thing JR loves more than baseball is his family. JR might love baseball but I question as to how much he likes the White Sox. The team is at the bottom in MLB in wins, attendance and Tv ratings. The team and the franchise is a wreck. JR has no shame as he continues to laugh all the way to the bank.

I have been trying to write a response to this but, seriously, who cares? Why are you wasting time caring about the product on the field? We are a horrible team going through a rebuild. The last thing you should be paying attention to is the game. Focus on the young players, focus on the execution, and focus on the details. Don't fret about a bullpen that won't have a single player that is currently on it on the roster in 2020.
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  #53  
Old 09-02-2017, 05:56 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Stone's probably right. And I think our rotation will be Rodon-Kopech-Hansen-Giolito-Lopez by 2019. Yes, we'll need a bullpen, but we have other pitchers coming through the system like Cease, Burdi (should be back in 2019), Adams, Clarkin, Stephens, Guerrero, and more. Some of them will slot into the bullpen; we can get other relievers through free agency or trades of surplus prospects.
We are so deep in pitching right now, a Top 30 of just pitchers 24-and-under would be better than our real Top 30 from a couple years ago.

There are pitchers with ace/near-ace potential in Rodon, Kopech, Hansen. Follow them up with Giolito, Lopez, Dunning, Stephens, Guerrero, Cease, Clarkin, Puckett. There are a handful like Fulmer, Adams, and Lowry who have been on top-prospect lists, then slipped, but could still be fixed. There are more on the fringes like Davis, Flores, Martinez, Lambert, and Hickman, never mind this year's draftees. And you can fill out the list with relievers like Burdi, Bummer, Fry, Hamilton, Burr, Kubat, Charleston, Riga, Dopico, Wright, Elliott, Morrison, Foster, Olson and McClure.

And by the way, we're deeper in outfield, catching, and third base prospects than I can remember.
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  #54  
Old 09-02-2017, 06:12 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
There's not a post about last nights game, so I will make my comments here. Last nights game, on a very nice Friday night drew a whopping 13,585 paid customers, the lowest attendance in MLB last night. Believe me there were a lot less people there. I don't think they had 10,000 fans there. Maybe the low attendance was for the best. The game was PATHETIC. I knew this season was going to be bad, but it keeps getting worse. Hahn recently gutted our bullpen which was nothing but a big salary dump. The team now has a bullpen that features Bummer and Fullmer. I keep reading how good our Minor League system is and yet they bring up these 2 guys who can't get anybody out. It amazes me that the team keeps bringing up Fullmer. He couldn't get anybody out in the Minors and yet they keep promoting him. I think one of the great myths in this city is how much JR loves baseball. Bruce Levine in particular keeps saying that the only thing JR loves more than baseball is his family. JR might love baseball but I question as to how much he likes the White Sox. The team is at the bottom in MLB in wins, attendance and Tv ratings. The team and the franchise is a wreck. JR has no shame as he continues to laugh all the way to the bank.
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  #55  
Old 09-02-2017, 06:17 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
I have been trying to write a response to this but, seriously, who cares? Why are you wasting time caring about the product on the field?
I suspect it's ego driven. The Sox suck, they are horrific...meanwhile the Cubs are doing very well and those individuals simply can't or won't accept the reality of the situation and what the future might hold. They are taking this rebuild personally instead of understanding it was a business move to try to break the cycle of mediocrity (at best) that this franchise has been in since 2007.

Age may also be a factor in the sense that this is going to take a few years, there's a chance they may not be around to see the end of it which we all hope is successful.

Just my two cents on it.
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  #56  
Old 09-02-2017, 06:27 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Age may also be a factor in the sense that this is going to take a few years, there's a chance they may not be around to see the end of it which we all hope is successful.
I think the age argument is lame. My father died last year at 87, having seen the Sox lose in 1959 and win in 2005. As a Sox fan, that's all you have a right to expect.

The only Sox fans who don't remember 2005 are under 20, and they will certainly be around long enough to see the fruits of the rebuild.

And since we've debunked the idea that the Sox could have gotten good again just by throwing money at free agents, the rebuild is their best hope.
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  #57  
Old 09-02-2017, 06:44 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Leury to the DL, Rymer Liriano up. Why bother with the DL move?
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  #58  
Old 09-02-2017, 07:34 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Leury to the DL, Rymer Liriano up. Why bother with the DL move?
Good question, what's one more among thousands!
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  #59  
Old 09-02-2017, 07:37 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I think the age argument is lame. My father died last year at 87, having seen the Sox lose in 1959 and win in 2005. As a Sox fan, that's all you have a right to expect.
Andrew:

If you go back and search the posts you'll find that some of those who are most adamant against the rebuild mentioned the age factor themselves.

I agree with you. There are no guarantees about anything, life isn't fair. All you can do is hope the rebuild works and hope you are around to see it.
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  #60  
Old 09-02-2017, 07:50 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
I have been trying to write a response to this but, seriously, who cares? Why are you wasting time caring about the product on the field? We are a horrible team going through a rebuild. The last thing you should be paying attention to is the game. Focus on the young players, focus on the execution, and focus on the details. Don't fret about a bullpen that won't have a single player that is currently on it on the roster in 2020.
He doesn't want to not pay attention to the product on the field. Reminds me of when, as a little kid, I would think the Sox still had a chance like 20 games out if they weren't mathematically eliminated. You won't convince him otherwise.
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