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  #1  
Old 08-05-2017, 09:06 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Default Embarrassing

I know it is a rebuild and the talent level is mostly AA/AAA. But fundamentals should be there regardless. Being a long-time White Sox fan stuck in the middle of Red Sox country, tonight was a tough pill to swallow. Misjudging a flyball in the 7th ending in a double-play, trying to stretch a single into a double in the 8th and getting picked off first in the 9th should result in the first base coach being sent to Charlotte for Baseball 101.
Red Sox announcers are killing us and they are right.
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2017, 09:41 PM
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Draft picks, draft picks. I'm enjoying this season. Why? I have no expectations so nothing pisses me off.

2019, bring it!
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  #3  
Old 08-05-2017, 10:10 PM
soxnut67 soxnut67 is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Draft picks, draft picks. I'm enjoying this season. Why? I have no expectations so nothing pisses me off.

2019, bring it!
Exactly. Seen this before and I get it. No worries.
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  #4  
Old 08-05-2017, 10:14 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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I did find it humorous that right after Hawk starts pontificating about how RR is getting guys to play the game right, the base running blunders begin.

More and more I'm getting convinced that RR is not the man for the job when (if) these kids in the minors get called up and are actually good.

Sox need to find a guy with experience and a winning track record at that time. (And yes I know they are hard to find but contracts can be broken, managers have actually been traded before. If the Sox think a guy like that is the final piece they need to move heaven and Earth to get it done...like the Cubs did.)
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2017, 10:33 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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I agree. This is embarrassing. Losing because you're outmanned is one thing. However, there is no excuse for a professional team to make these kinds of baserunning mistakes.

And we'll be looking at this for at least another three years. Don't fool yourself: This team isn't going to be good in 2019. Even if a high percentage of the prospects make the majors, most will be rookies that season. They will struggle.
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  #6  
Old 08-05-2017, 10:38 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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And we'll be looking at this for at least another three years.
It shouldn't...there is no way this should be an Astros like situation with all that the Sox had to trade. The buildup should start next year. Oh not for more past their prime "stars" that this front office loves, but for pre arb players, etc. If they are going to sit back and wait for all prospects to blossom, this will take 10 years.
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  #7  
Old 08-05-2017, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
I agree. This is embarrassing. Losing because you're outmanned is one thing. However, there is no excuse for a professional team to make these kinds of baserunning mistakes.

And we'll be looking at this for at least another three years. Don't fool yourself: This team isn't going to be good in 2019. Even if a high percentage of the prospects make the majors, most will be rookies that season. They will struggle.
Lopez, Giolito, Moncada, and Fulmer won't be rookies in 2019 at the least. They may in fact be really good ML players by then. Rodon could be a legit ace. Abreu will still be good. Anderson will be much better. And while guys like Kopech, Eloy, Dunning, etc will be getting their first real cup of coffee that season, you have to figure at least some of the rookies will be impact guys. Blue chip prospects come up and perform right away just as often as they struggle. Not everyone will go through Moncada-like growing pains.

I don't believe the Sox will contend in 2019, but they should be competitive and probably make a run at .500. The awful baseball will spill into 2018, but I'd be stunned if this isn't at least a 75-80 win team in 2019.
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  #8  
Old 08-05-2017, 11:34 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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And we'll be looking at this for at least another three years. Don't fool yourself: This team isn't going to be good in 2019.
I've said all along I think it will be 2020 myself.
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  #9  
Old 08-06-2017, 01:15 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
I did find it humorous that right after Hawk starts pontificating about how RR is getting guys to play the game right, the base running blunders begin.

More and more I'm getting convinced that RR is not the man for the job when (if) these kids in the minors get called up and are actually good.

Sox need to find a guy with experience and a winning track record at that time. (And yes I know they are hard to find but contracts can be broken, managers have actually been traded before. If the Sox think a guy like that is the final piece they need to move heaven and Earth to get it done...like the Cubs did.)
Was it not the common understanding that Rick was to be the "point A to point B" manager? He's here to command the tank until it's time to compete, then we'll move on to a manager who's better suited for managing a contending team (theoretically).
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  #10  
Old 08-06-2017, 02:11 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Was it not the common understanding that Rick was to be the "point A to point B" manager? He's here to command the tank until it's time to compete, then we'll move on to a manager who's better suited for managing a contending team (theoretically).
Thats pretty bad for a manager to have a label that he can't manage a contending team.
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  #11  
Old 08-06-2017, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
Was it not the common understanding that Rick was to be the "point A to point B" manager? He's here to command the tank until it's time to compete, then we'll move on to a manager who's better suited for managing a contending team (theoretically).
This is ludicrous. There is no reason to believe that other than the "Well, the Cubs did it that way" mantra. The Sox are forever being defined through the lens of the Cubs.
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2017, 02:59 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
Was it not the common understanding that Rick was to be the "point A to point B" manager? He's here to command the tank until it's time to compete, then we'll move on to a manager who's better suited for managing a contending team (theoretically).
But those plays are fundamental plays, two by veterans in Abreu and Leury. It was compounded by Darryl Boston obviously being asleep. Hanson must have misjudged that Betts would make the catch and was easily caught. But Boston must have also. Down, 4-1 why is Abreu trying to take 2nd and again where was Boston? Why is Leury taking a big lead down 4-1 especially since Kimbrall already threw over. Again, why did Boston not tell him?
Now if they are trying to tank, then it makes sense that the coaches are blind to mistakes.
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2017, 03:51 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
Was it not the common understanding that Rick was to be the "point A to point B" manager? He's here to command the tank until it's time to compete, then we'll move on to a manager who's better suited for managing a contending team (theoretically).
I don't think that's the understanding at all...certainly not with this organization's track record in managers. And remember JR has never paid a lot for his managers / head coaches he's made it clear that he doesn't consider that that important.

The only time the Sox were going to break that philosophy was when he had a handshake agreement to bring LaRussa back after the Bevington fiasco. But when Ron Schueler objected to the terms, he sided with him and Tony went to St. Louis.

Last edited by Lip Man 1; 08-06-2017 at 04:01 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2017, 06:20 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Like who?
There's no way to know now, whom may be available in two or three years time. The Cubs had no idea Maddon was going to be available until it happened for an example.
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  #15  
Old 08-07-2017, 01:12 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
I did find it humorous that right after Hawk starts pontificating about how RR is getting guys to play the game right, the base running blunders begin.

More and more I'm getting convinced that RR is not the man for the job when (if) these kids in the minors get called up and are actually good.

Sox need to find a guy with experience and a winning track record at that time. (And yes I know they are hard to find but contracts can be broken, managers have actually been traded before. If the Sox think a guy like that is the final piece they need to move heaven and Earth to get it done...like the Cubs did.)
I don't judge an MLB manager based on stuff like fundamentals. I look at how they handle the bullpen, their lineups, the locker room, and if the players are playing hard for them. At this point, they shouldn't have to teach base-running. Every one of these guys has probably a thousand games under his belt between little league, travel, college, MiLB, etc. If a player represents the winning run, with 1 out, and is getting picked off of second as Delmonico was on Friday, there's not amount of coaching that is going to help them.
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