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  #31  
Old 07-02-2017, 08:38 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by chisox59 View Post
This is one of my concerns with the rebuild the way I see they have it planned. It looks as if it will include Anderson at SS and Moncada at 2nd. Good teams build with strength up the middle. Anderson has 16 or 17 errors and Moncada had 10 the last time I checked. The way that Yolmer Sanchez is playing this year I'm comfortable leaving him at one of those two positions. I also like the look of Adam Engel in centerfield. The question is will he keep hitting once the league has seen him. Collins is the plan for catcher so I hope his working on his defense pays off....at least that seems to be the excuse as to why his batting average is so low.
I'd like Collins to hit better, too, but he's among the league leaders in walks and he's had very little lineup protection until recently. He hits for power so there's no reason for opposing pitchers to throw him hittable pitches.

I too want great defense up the middle. It seems Anderson's errors - and even Moncada's - are of the type that with more practice and play can improve. I do like what Yolmer has brought this year and maybe he's the "super sub" of the future.

Until Robert is ready, I think we should help our young pitchers by putting Engel and May in the outfield, hitting be damned.
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  #32  
Old 07-02-2017, 10:33 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Meanwhile, two posts later, after verifiable evidence to the contrary is presented:



That's called moving the goalposts.

No, that's called referencing the threads that predicted 100-plus losses. I've never opened any season prediction thread for any season and had forgotten they exist and certainly didn't imagine such a thing was being referenced there having been so many gloomy predictions elsewhere.

I missed the part where the predictions thread that I've never opened was specified in the comment I referenced.

I don't care about goal posts and would never move them.
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  #33  
Old 07-02-2017, 11:10 PM
StillMissOzzie StillMissOzzie is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
The 2017 White Sox were put together to have an in-shambles rotation and and a thin bullpen. The offense is better than most expected, and so is the record. If the trade-off for home runs is more contact and higher batting averages, the Sox are probably better off and would be able to win more games if they played in closer games where they could manufacture meaningful runs.

I thought the Sox had a good chance of beating the Yankees Wednesday night when I saw that Cabrera cut the New York lead to 3-2 in the fifth with two on and none out. The next time I checked the game, it was just the next half inning, and the Yankees were leading 8-2.
I don't think that anyone anticipated the injuries to Shields or Rodon. While I am pretty sure nobody expected much from Shields, that's still 140 - 180 innings or so that need to be covered. I think that hopes were higher for Rodon this year, but he is getting a very late start and may only get 90 - 100 innings in. As for the bullpen, the Sox have again suffered some significant injuries in the bullpen, to the point where I worry that Renteria will overwork the few good arms he has to count on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Mean 70.68 Median 70 Mode 70
Now THAT is some central tendency happening!

The defense still looks poor all too often, they are still leaving runners on 3rd with less than 2 outs unscored, and the batting lineup has too many weak spots.

That said, while I wish I shared sunofgold's optimism, this rebuild will probably (hopefully) take a few names out of the lineup by the end of the month, and I expect that record to plummet.

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  #34  
Old 07-04-2017, 09:50 AM
sunofgold sunofgold is offline
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Default Decent

Better than our record indicates. We are a decent team ...better now with Rodon back. And a ton of talent growing in the minors.

Today is a good day to rebuild and win. #wsraw

Only -7.5 div and -5 wc
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  #35  
Old 07-04-2017, 12:10 PM
ricker182 ricker182 is offline
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Imagine if we had Sale and Eaton (ignoring the injury).

There was no reason for the complete teardown. "Mired in mediocrity" makes the playoffs with the right moves at the deadline nowadays.

Moncada is a nice player, but he isn't going to be an MVP type.

So many questions with our prospects.

Fulmer, like I said before we drafted him, is barely MLB quality. He is a forceful thrower not a pitcher.
He has a hard time pitching and doesn't make it look effortless like the best.
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  #36  
Old 07-04-2017, 12:49 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by ricker182 View Post
Imagine if we had Sale and Eaton (ignoring the injury).

There was no reason for the complete teardown. "Mired in mediocrity" makes the playoffs with the right moves at the deadline nowadays.

Moncada is a nice player, but he isn't going to be an MVP type.

So many questions with our prospects.

Fulmer, like I said before we drafted him, is barely MLB quality. He is a forceful thrower not a pitcher.
He has a hard time pitching and doesn't make it look effortless like the best.
We have the 2nd to worst defense in the AL, and a mediocre bullpen- Sale and Eaton do not make this team a contender

Thank God we found someone to give us 3 quality arms for Eaton

What's the basis for your assessment of Moncada?
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  #37  
Old 07-04-2017, 12:55 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by ricker182 View Post
Imagine if we had Sale and Eaton (ignoring the injury).
Do Sale and Willis come over as a package?
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  #38  
Old 07-04-2017, 12:59 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
We have the 2nd to worst defense in the AL, and a mediocre bullpen- Sale and Eaton do not make this team a contender

Thank God we found someone to give us 3 quality arms for Eaton

What's the basis for your assessment of Moncada?
There is no basis.
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  #39  
Old 07-04-2017, 01:03 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricker182 View Post
"Mired in mediocrity" makes the playoffs with the right moves at the deadline nowadays
To how many recent teams does that apply?

Apparently, the Sox never figured out how to do that.
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  #40  
Old 07-05-2017, 11:17 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Former top-100 prospect Mason Williams was designated for assignment about a week ago by the Yankees. I wouldn't mind giving him a look in our outfield.
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  #41  
Old 07-06-2017, 04:15 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Former top-100 prospect Mason Williams was designated for assignment about a week ago by the Yankees. I wouldn't mind giving him a look in our outfield.
Why not? It's open audition time.
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  #42  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:06 PM
sunofgold sunofgold is offline
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Default We are good

Soon to be the great
Then the greatest

Tons of good players here like Moncada, Lopes, GArcia, Rodin, Anderson, Davidson...more to come

Only down a dozenˇ

#raw
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  #43  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:24 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricker182 View Post
Imagine if we had Sale and Eaton (ignoring the injury).

There was no reason for the complete teardown. "Mired in mediocrity" makes the playoffs with the right moves at the deadline nowadays.
Not for this team it didn't.
2 playoffs in 16 tries.
Personally, I had had enough of that philosophy.

As an aside, had they decided to keep going for it, you wouldn't have seen these young position players who are generally performing well, on this team. Young players are simply not what Williams/Hahn do when going for it. They would have signed a bunch of guys on their last legs, and it would have been another 77 win effort. Unfortunately, the were adamant in that regard until the very end (see their nonsense in June 2016).
Of course, this edition will be in "go for it" mode soon enough, and hopefully, the nice play from young players will have an effect on the Williams/Hahn "go for it" philosophy.
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  #44  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:29 AM
Falstaff Falstaff is offline
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2018 lineup:

1B Abreu
2B Moncada
SS Anderson
3B Davidson
C Smith
RF Avi
CF Engel? Leury? Luis?
LF Delmonico?

P Rodon
P Lopez
P Gonzalez
P Giolito?
P Holland?

etc

To me, this is the opening day lineup, plus bullpen. Let then play.
By 2019 they will be a force to contend with. I think people underestimate what a drag Robin Ventura as manager was on the club, and things are going to be different.

And for that matter, these White Sox might continue to develop and surprise a few more Houstons this season but no Wild Card this year.

Last edited by Falstaff; 08-12-2017 at 09:33 AM. Reason: adding another thought
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  #45  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:47 AM
Andrew C White Andrew C White is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falstaff View Post
2018 lineup:

1B Abreu
2B Moncada
SS Anderson
3B Davidson
C Smith
RF Avi
CF Engel? Leury? Luis?
LF Delmonico?

P Rodon
P Lopez
P Gonzalez
P Giolito?
P Holland?

etc

To me, this is the opening day lineup, plus bullpen. Let then play.
By 2019 they will be a force to contend with. I think people underestimate what a drag Robin Ventura as manager was on the club, and things are going to be different.

And for that matter, these White Sox might continue to develop and surprise a few more Houstons this season but no Wild Card this year.
I think you are overly optimistic.

Luis Robert will not be on the team next year unless he turns out to be superman. 2020, perhaps 2019, is more realistic.

James Shields will be in the rotation in 2018.

Kevin Smith can hit but is not a particularly good catcher. Can't remember the last time I've seen so many White Sox pitchers shake off a catcher so often.

Left Field, DH, and the last two starting spots in the rotation are big question marks. The entire bullpen is a question mark. CF will be manned by a L.Garcia or Adam Engel. The first of whom may well regress and the second of whom may never hit consistently.

This team will be bad in 2018 but hopefully with exciting sparks like the last few days.

This team will be better in 2019 as a few quality prospects (Kopech, Jiminez, maybe others) arrive but will still have major holes and a losing record.

This team might surprise in 2020 but will be full of rookies and second year players. But it should be competitive and very exciting on a nightly basis regardless of record. A winning record and maybe a wild card spot seem optimistic but reasonable to me... if everything goes right.

Most of the prospects in A/A+ won't be ready until 2020 and then will have to adjust to the higher level of competition and talent in the major leagues. The pitching should start getting better 2018-2019 though as most of those prospects are in AAA and AA and the two best guys in A+ may move a little faster.

But as we saw with Lopez last night there will be plenty to get excited about as these guys start to trickle in one by one until the flood in 2020.
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