Sox Fans: The Few, the Proud . . .

[Vernam]

I apologize for the length of this. It's the first thread I've tried starting, after replying to a bunch. I've been thinking a lot about the Sox and their fans. I’m lucky enough to be seeing my fourth game of the year tomorrow against the Angels, for my son's 11th birthday. The tradition (or virus!) gets handed down . . .

I have to call the media bashing of Sox fans what it really is: Class bias. Working class people have been systematically shut out of pro sports due to escalating costs. I have no idea how someone making less than $50K per year can afford to take a family of four out to Sox Park or any other park more than once per year, if that. The new parks (not just the Cell) give the finger to people who can't afford to sit at Club Level. In a special baseball issue several years ago, Smithsonian magazine ran commentary by a distinguished architect who showed how the upper decks in ALL the newer stadiums are about 100 feet farther from the field to accommodate sky boxes. Sox Park is often half-empty not because there are no Sox fans, but because a lot of their fans can no longer afford to attend games.

Let’s face it: Most well-to-do people don't want working stiffs around any more than necessary. That's where a lot of this snarkiness toward Sox fans comes from, IMO. When drunks run on the field or fight, it reflects on us as a group and plays into a stereotype of what non-Sox fans think of us. But stuff like that happens in every park. Only at the Cell does it become a federal offense. Why? Start by looking at the neighborhood, not just as it is now but as it was back when the Stockyards were still around.

Elitist, faux baseball fans like Chris Berman -- he really is heir to Cosell in that sense -- love to pretend they're into the history of the game. Sportswriters rhapsodize about the romance of old parks and retro parks, but they show their true colors by making snide comments about Sox fans and South Siders, whose original park was deemed expendable. Certain media figures in Chicago all pay tribute to Wrigley because a.) they know at some point they might want to work for the Tribune Company (if they don't already), b.) they know there's more money to be made catering to Cub fans, and c.) they don't respect the working man.

The Sox management deserves some blame in this regard, too, going back to Einhorn's comments about having more "class." They blew their chance to build in Addison (thankfully) and have since spent a lot of energy alienating their fan base. Veeck had his drawbacks, but he absolutely identified with working people. Yet the same writers and radio hosts who sentimentalize him go out of their way to put down Sox fans.

It's symptomatic of today's society in general. Some people would say there's a bigger gap than ever between rich and poor. I don't know . . . But I do believe at some point it stopped being respectable to earn an honest living that doesn't pay enough for a big house in a neighborhood with top schools. The first game I went to this year, we sat in the upper deck, and for the first time ever in the new park, I had a sense of how the old park felt. Not to romanticize it, but a lot of that had to do with the fact that I was sitting among some die hard fans. The lower level has die hards, obviously (especially in the outfield), but it also has a type of fan I first saw at the '83 playoff games: Well-off people who seem not to be followers of the team so much as scene-makers. If the Sox keep winning, you'll see more of these people, and I guess that's what we need to pay the top salaries. But will they keep coming if the Sox start letting upper-deck fans down onto the 100 level? That whole segregation is weird and wrong, IMO.

If I were Sox PR director, I'd market the team as counter-culture, counter-programming, and counter-intuitive. They need a campaign like the successful ones Apple has run, because the Sox will always be the Macintosh to the Cubs' Microsoft; hopefully they’ll never play Betamax to the Cubs’ VHS! So why do what everyone else does? Why do what The Man tells you to do? Think for yourself. Be real. Be a Sox fan.

VC

[ode to veeck]

Smithsonian magazine ran commentary by a distinguished architect who showed how the upper decks in ALL the newer stadiums are about 100 feet farther from the field to accommodate sky boxes.

It's also due to the fact that modern parks don't have support pillars anywhere between fans and the field. The upper decks' front row seats of the old parks like Comiskey and the old Tiger Stadium were directly above the front row seats of the lower level, making ALL the upper deck seats A LOT closer to the game.

If someone really wanted to build a cool retro park that got the fans a lot closer to the field, they'd give up on all the overly cantelevered upper deck designs and give up a realtively few obstructed view seats by putting the supports in to have an old style upper deck looking right over the field.

The "old" named "club seats" in the old comiskey were actually the 1st several rows of seats in the upper deck between 1st and 3rd that looked right down on the game. These were phenomenal seats that mostly don't exist at any parks anywhere today.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by Vernam

If I were Sox PR director, I'd market the team as counter-culture, counter-programming, and counter-intuitive. They need a campaign like the successful ones Apple has run, because the Sox will always be the Macintosh to the Cubs' Microsoft; hopefully they’ll never play Betamax to the Cubs’ VHS! So why do what everyone else does? Why do what The Man tells you to do? Think for yourself. Be real. Be a Sox fan.

I've often thought that too. Well said.

[Bruck35]

Originally posted by Vernam
I apologize for the length of this. It's the first thread I've tried starting, after replying to a bunch. I've been thinking a lot about the Sox and their fans. I’m lucky enough to be seeing my fourth game of the year tomorrow against the Angels, for my son's 11th birthday. The tradition (or virus!) gets handed down . . .

I have to call the media bashing of Sox fans what it really is: Class bias. Working class people have been systematically shut out of pro sports due to escalating costs. I have no idea how someone making less than $50K per year can afford to take a family of four out to Sox Park or any other park more than once per year, if that. The new parks (not just the Cell) give the finger to people who can't afford to sit at Club Level. In a special baseball issue several years ago, Smithsonian magazine ran commentary by a distinguished architect who showed how the upper decks in ALL the newer stadiums are about 100 feet farther from the field to accommodate sky boxes. Sox Park is often half-empty not because there are no Sox fans, but because a lot of their fans can no longer afford to attend games.

Let’s face it: Most well-to-do people don't want working stiffs around any more than necessary. That's where a lot of this snarkiness toward Sox fans comes from, IMO. When drunks run on the field or fight, it reflects on us as a group and plays into a stereotype of what non-Sox fans think of us. But stuff like that happens in every park. Only at the Cell does it become a federal offense. Why? Start by looking at the neighborhood, not just as it is now but as it was back when the Stockyards were still around.

Elitist, faux baseball fans like Chris Berman -- he really is heir to Cosell in that sense -- love to pretend they're into the history of the game. Sportswriters rhapsodize about the romance of old parks and retro parks, but they show their true colors by making snide comments about Sox fans and South Siders, whose original park was deemed expendable. Certain media figures in Chicago all pay tribute to Wrigley because a.) they know at some point they might want to work for the Tribune Company (if they don't already), b.) they know there's more money to be made catering to Cub fans, and c.) they don't respect the working man.

The Sox management deserves some blame in this regard, too, going back to Einhorn's comments about having more "class." They blew their chance to build in Addison (thankfully) and have since spent a lot of energy alienating their fan base. Veeck had his drawbacks, but he absolutely identified with working people. Yet the same writers and radio hosts who sentimentalize him go out of their way to put down Sox fans.

It's symptomatic of today's society in general. Some people would say there's a bigger gap than ever between rich and poor. I don't know . . . But I do believe at some point it stopped being respectable to earn an honest living that doesn't pay enough for a big house in a neighborhood with top schools. The first game I went to this year, we sat in the upper deck, and for the first time ever in the new park, I had a sense of how the old park felt. Not to romanticize it, but a lot of that had to do with the fact that I was sitting among some die hard fans. The lower level has die hards, obviously (especially in the outfield), but it also has a type of fan I first saw at the '83 playoff games: Well-off people who seem not to be followers of the team so much as scene-makers. If the Sox keep winning, you'll see more of these people, and I guess that's what we need to pay the top salaries. But will they keep coming if the Sox start letting upper-deck fans down onto the 100 level? That whole segregation is weird and wrong, IMO.

If I were Sox PR director, I'd market the team as counter-culture, counter-programming, and counter-intuitive. They need a campaign like the successful ones Apple has run, because the Sox will always be the Macintosh to the Cubs' Microsoft; hopefully they’ll never play Betamax to the Cubs’ VHS! So why do what everyone else does? Why do what The Man tells you to do? Think for yourself. Be real. Be a Sox fan.

VC

Excellent post - a pretty down to earth view of how many "working class" people feel about the changes made by the Sox organization. I think this reflects society as a whole...the expanding upper class, expanding lower class and shrinking middle class. Stadiums make a ton of $$$ from the skyboxes and they're becoming so regular that few question the idea of putting the seats closer to the park and moving the skyboxes further away.

The skyboxes have to be in a prime location so they can charge the necessary big bucks, and the upper deck seats suffer the consequences.

Thanks for taking the time to bring up some good points!

[Kadafi311]

Originally posted by Vernam
If I were Sox PR director, I'd market the team as counter-culture, counter-programming, and counter-intuitive. They need a campaign like the successful ones Apple has run, because the Sox will always be the Macintosh to the Cubs' Microsoft; hopefully they’ll never play Betamax to the Cubs’ VHS! So why do what everyone else does? Why do what The Man tells you to do? Think for yourself. Be real. Be a Sox fan.

Agree completely. This is such an obvious solution to the Sox marketing and PR dilemma, I'm unable to comprehend why it isn't equally obvious to ownership.

Good guys wear black, build from there.

[elrod]

Excellent, excellent post. The White Sox fan has always been the working man or woman. It's time to tell all the fratboy yuppies who moan over Wrigley Field to go to Hell.

[wilburwood]

The first team in MLB to in stall lights so the working stiff could catch a game? you guessed it Comiskey Park.
The last team to put in lights??? well folks take a guess....

[C-Dawg]

In my case, I can afford to go to the games but I find it difficult to do so since my work is seasonal and April-November is by far our busy season. This pretty much limits me to Sunday games, or Saturday NIGHT only. I work 70 hours a week, weather permitting. Our vacations are limited to Jan. - March, and I was able to go to Arizona this year and saw a couple spring training games at Tucson; something I've wanted to do for a long time. But unlike Cub fans, I just don't have the luxury of spending weekdays at the ball park (How do those guys do it? Are they all college kids, going to see the Cubs with tickets they charged on their parents Visa cards???).

I have a friend who is a Cub fan. Sometimes, whenever he feels like ditching work, he calls in sick and goes up to the Cub game. If he doesn't have tickets, he just hangs around in the neighborhood. If I tried this, I wouldn't have my job for very long. I have to work for a living.

[SSN721]

Originally posted by C-Dawg
In my case, I can afford to go to the games but I find it difficult to do so since my work is seasonal and April-November is by far our busy season. This pretty much limits me to Sunday games, or Saturday NIGHT only. I work 70 hours a week, weather permitting. Our vacations are limited to Jan. - March, and I was able to go to Arizona this year and saw a couple spring training games at Tucson; something I've wanted to do for a long time. But unlike Cub fans, I just don't have the luxury of spending weekdays at the ball park (How do those guys do it? Are they all college kids, going to see the Cubs with tickets they charged on their parents Visa cards???).

I have a friend who is a Cub fan. Sometimes, whenever he feels like ditching work, he calls in sick and goes up to the Cub game. If he doesn't have tickets, he just hangs around in the neighborhood. If I tried this, I wouldn't have my job for very long. I have to work for a living.

That always amazes me as well. Where do these kids get all this money to afford to get drunk at game with beer prices as they after paying so much for tickets. And on weekday no less. I took off for opening day but other than that I can only than k the White Sox for having lights and most of their games at night. I work 50-60 hours a week and I still have made it to 11 or 12 games this year. I understand the premise of the first post here, it is very tough to go see games, luckily I only have to buy for myself, but if I had to take a whole family on the same salary I cant see going to more then a game every one or two months.

[Realist]

Vernam, thank you so much for the excellent post. I think it quite nicely compliments, echos and improves on a post I made awhile ago. I'll quote my post below and link to the thread it's from.

While my post may have addressed part of the problem, you went even further and offered solutions. I tip my hat to you, Sir. I am humbled by your eloquence.

The one thing that is never brought up on these "Sox vs. Cubs" threads is CAPITALISM. Let's face it folks, we live in an economy driven by profit and it just so happens that gentrification and immigration to Chicago begins on the northside. THAT'S what's driving the media to worship those slack jawwed-bag licking-yuppie scum Cubs (sorry Lee Elia, your rant is very outdated).

Chicago is in a period of major change. While it was once all the rage for Chicagoans to flee the city to the suburbs for a better life for their families, it is now all the rage for suburban white folk to move back to the city and try to establish "suburbanesque" lifestyles within an urban setting. I suppose it's so they can attach the tag "worldly" to their existance. I dunno.

Anyway, that's the trend. When some hayseed from Nebraska or Iowa decides to move to Chicago (the 2nd CITY), they immediately begin asking around for the best place to live and the answer is - "The North Side... around Wrigleyville... it's safe".

So these semi-affluent white folks from Greengrass, Iowa move to Chicago. They move to Wrigleyville, Lincoln Park, Bucktown, and Lakeview and hope they don't get shot or mugged in the "big city". In the mean time, whether they know it or not, they've landed in "Cubbieland" and being the sheep that humans tend to be, they jump on the "Cubbiebandwagon" because they're completely emersed in it. I've seen it constantly for 3 years (bartending for these same sheep 4 blocks from the Urinal).

So... now we've got tons of folks on their way UP the economic ladder saturating Chicago, but it's only on the NORTHside and they become instant Flub fans. Next... the gawdforsaken corporate media realises that these are the folks driving our economy and the advertisers' paychecks up, so they begin to avalanche us with Flubbie propoganda.

We're fighting an uphill battle. We're no longer "The City of Big Shoulders", or the Back of the Yards, or the Steel Mills (south eastside, where I'm from ). We're the city of Jettas, Starbucks, track lighting, and "shhhhh... be quiet.... it's after 9pm and my babies, Biff and Jennifer, are trying to sleep".

In the past, the White Sox flourished in Chicago because we were always a "blue collar" town. As the urban mise en scene shifts from rolled up sleaves and an honest day's work for an honest day's dollar to "what does it take for me to make a quick easy buck", the Chicago White Sox and what they and their fans have always represented fade more and more into the sunset.

That's not to say I'm giving up without a fight!! Go White Sox!! Die Yuppie Scum!! .... and not to forget... CUBS SUCK!! (with teeth)

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/v...571#post284571

[PaulDrake]

Vernam- Your post is a home run.

Realist- I agree with your historical analysis and current assessment of the situation. We left the area in the mid 80's and if I tried to come back I probably couldn't afford it. Housing costs have skyrocketed, it would have to be a cheap apartment in a non gentrified neighborhood.

Even demographics, history and the forces of nature are against us. Still we perservere. I hope to make a semi annual visit this summer and catch a Sox game or two.

[BigEdWalsh]

Vernam, you're my new hero.
Someone said you hit a homerun. S***! You hit a GRAND SLAM!

[white sox bill]

Although not a native Chicagoan, I beleive the demo's are changing right? The area around the Park is getting better, although not "yuppiesh" right?

[SaltyPretzel]

Originally posted by wilburwood
The first team in MLB to in stall lights so the working stiff could catch a game? you guessed it Comiskey Park.
The last team to put in lights??? well folks take a guess....

It was actually Cincy, but we get your point.

[HomerCoach]

Originally posted by Vernam
I apologize for the length of this. It's the first thread I've tried starting, after replying to a bunch. I've been thinking a lot about the Sox and their fans. I’m lucky enough to be seeing my fourth game of the year tomorrow against the Angels, for my son's 11th birthday. The tradition (or virus!) gets handed down . . .

I have to call the media bashing of Sox fans what it really is: Class bias. Working class people have been systematically shut out of pro sports due to escalating costs. I have no idea how someone making less than $50K per year can afford to take a family of four out to Sox Park or any other park more than once per year, if that. The new parks (not just the Cell) give the finger to people who can't afford to sit at Club Level. In a special baseball issue several years ago, Smithsonian magazine ran commentary by a distinguished architect who showed how the upper decks in ALL the newer stadiums are about 100 feet farther from the field to accommodate sky boxes. Sox Park is often half-empty not because there are no Sox fans, but because a lot of their fans can no longer afford to attend games.

Let’s face it: Most well-to-do people don't want working stiffs around any more than necessary. That's where a lot of this snarkiness toward Sox fans comes from, IMO. When drunks run on the field or fight, it reflects on us as a group and plays into a stereotype of what non-Sox fans think of us. But stuff like that happens in every park. Only at the Cell does it become a federal offense. Why? Start by looking at the neighborhood, not just as it is now but as it was back when the Stockyards were still around.

Elitist, faux baseball fans like Chris Berman -- he really is heir to Cosell in that sense -- love to pretend they're into the history of the game. Sportswriters rhapsodize about the romance of old parks and retro parks, but they show their true colors by making snide comments about Sox fans and South Siders, whose original park was deemed expendable. Certain media figures in Chicago all pay tribute to Wrigley because a.) they know at some point they might want to work for the Tribune Company (if they don't already), b.) they know there's more money to be made catering to Cub fans, and c.) they don't respect the working man.

The Sox management deserves some blame in this regard, too, going back to Einhorn's comments about having more "class." They blew their chance to build in Addison (thankfully) and have since spent a lot of energy alienating their fan base. Veeck had his drawbacks, but he absolutely identified with working people. Yet the same writers and radio hosts who sentimentalize him go out of their way to put down Sox fans.

It's symptomatic of today's society in general. Some people would say there's a bigger gap than ever between rich and poor. I don't know . . . But I do believe at some point it stopped being respectable to earn an honest living that doesn't pay enough for a big house in a neighborhood with top schools. The first game I went to this year, we sat in the upper deck, and for the first time ever in the new park, I had a sense of how the old park felt. Not to romanticize it, but a lot of that had to do with the fact that I was sitting among some die hard fans. The lower level has die hards, obviously (especially in the outfield), but it also has a type of fan I first saw at the '83 playoff games: Well-off people who seem not to be followers of the team so much as scene-makers. If the Sox keep winning, you'll see more of these people, and I guess that's what we need to pay the top salaries. But will they keep coming if the Sox start letting upper-deck fans down onto the 100 level? That whole segregation is weird and wrong, IMO.

If I were Sox PR director, I'd market the team as counter-culture, counter-programming, and counter-intuitive. They need a campaign like the successful ones Apple has run, because the Sox will always be the Macintosh to the Cubs' Microsoft; hopefully they’ll never play Betamax to the Cubs’ VHS! So why do what everyone else does? Why do what The Man tells you to do? Think for yourself. Be real. Be a Sox fan.

VC

A good foundation for a Moronotti article!