Questions for Scouting Experts Only

[Ol' No. 2]

Originally Posted by Flight #24

IIRC, the Mike Hampton deal involved a bunch of cash going from Florida to Atlanta (although they saved $$ by sending Preston Wilson & CJ to the Rockies). EDIT: See here. Looks like $36mil of his deal was paid by Colorado & Florida. So sending $25-30mil with Helton would be considered a mere pittance!

In an interesting coincidence, Pablo Ozuna was ivolved in that deal, going from Florida to Colorado!

Also, didn't the original ARod to the BoSox deal involve a fairly large sum of $$$ going to Beantown from Hicks? That was commish-approved. I believe that unless it's a straight out purchase of a contract, a deal like this is likely to be approved. If not, I would think JR could put in a call to his Bud.

In the Hampton deal they paid $11M in salary. The other $19M was a signing bonus that they had already incurred, but which was deferred. I'd forgotten about the A-Rod deal. That involved something like $20M in cash, IIRC. It's not a question of being approved by Selig. It's just that teams aren't often willing to part with that much cash all at once. Maybe they could structure it like the Contreras deal in which they pay part of his salary each year instead of a boatload of cash upfront.

[Flight #24]

Originally Posted by Ol' No. 2

In the Hampton deal they paid $11M in salary. The other $19M was a signing bonus that they had already incurred, but which was deferred. I'd forgotten about the A-Rod deal. That involved something like $20M in cash, IIRC. It's not a question of being approved by Selig. It's just that teams aren't often willing to part with that much cash all at once. Maybe they could structure it like the Contreras deal in which they pay part of his salary each year instead of a boatload of cash upfront.

That contradicts BA's recap of the deal.

The Braves now are on the hook for $48.5 for six years of Hampton, with the Marlins paying $23.5 million of his 2003-05 salaries and the Rockies contributing $6.5 million over the same period. Colorado also paid $6 million to buy out Hampton's $20 million option for 2009.

So the Rockies paid $12.5mil including the 2009 buyout. The Marlins paid $23.5mil. If $19 of that was a deferred signing bonus, they paid it despite not incurring it. In fact BA phrases is as them paying part of his salary (ala the Contreras deal).

It's possible that they have it wrong, but the rumored Helton deal would be fairly similar to how BA recaps the Hampton deal. Colorado pays a portion of Todd's salary and some/all of his buyout and receives players in return.

[Ol' No. 2]

Originally Posted by Flight #24

That contradicts BA's recap of the deal.

So the Rockies paid $12.5mil including the 2009 buyout. The Marlins paid $23.5mil. If $19 of that was a deferred signing bonus, they paid it despite not incurring it. In fact BA phrases is as them paying part of his salary (ala the Contreras deal).

It's possible that they have it wrong, but the rumored Helton deal would be fairly similar to how BA recaps the Hampton deal. Colorado pays a portion of Todd's salary and some/all of his buyout and receives players in return.

Ow!! Trying to make sense out of all that money flying around everywhere is making my head hurt.

[Knucksie]

Originally Posted by Flight #24

As to your scenario, the Rockies response would be that they got a mix of great prospects (the scenarios posed here mostly involve guys like Sweeney, Rogowski, Tracey, Liotta, etc.), solid veterans (Dye, Konerko, Everett), and salary flexibility. They'd say "We weren't winning this year, and this deal accelerates our development so that we can active players for free agents, primarily pitching, and be contenders as early as next year".

I don't see the Sox sending Konerko, Sweeney, and a Tracey to Colorado for Helton and cash. Therefore the spiel about a mix of great prospects and solid veterans goes down the tubes.

In the scenario that Colorado would throw in, say $30, while at the same time taking on Konerko's contract, I fail to see how this would give them payroll flexibility. What is the status of Konerko's contract? How many7 years does he have left? If it ends this year, them they would be sending out their best player and $30 mil for a half a year rent-a-player. That would necessitate them either re-signing him (probably at an increased salary) to have a veteran holdover from the trade or take that money and search for someone to replace him. That is assuming they don't have anyone they think is major league ready which if they did, why wouldn't they bring the kid up at mid year for some experience and not incur Konerko's salary?

IMHO, I just don't see the Rockies taking a veteran like Konerko in a deal for Helton and cash. It would defeat the purpose of reducing the payroll. I also don't see KW giving that much up for Helton.

Now, a deal of prospects (Sweeney, Rogo, Tracey) for Helton and cash I could see as a possibility, but I just fail to see how either side would include Konerko in a deal such as this. Maybe Konerko and A prospect for Helton and some cash, not $30 mil.

Just my opinion though.

[mdep524]

Originally Posted by Knucksie

I don't see the Sox sending Konerko, Sweeney, and a Tracey to Colorado for Helton and cash. Therefore the spiel about a mix of great prospects and solid veterans goes down the tubes.

In the scenario that Colorado would throw in, say $30, while at the same time taking on Konerko's contract, I fail to see how this would give them payroll flexibility. What is the status of Konerko's contract? How many7 years does he have left? If it ends this year, them they would be sending out their best player and $30 mil for a half a year rent-a-player. That would necessitate them either re-signing him (probably at an increased salary) to have a veteran holdover from the trade or take that money and search for someone to replace him. That is assuming they don't have anyone they think is major league ready which if they did, why wouldn't they bring the kid up at mid year for some experience and not incur Konerko's salary?

IMHO, I just don't see the Rockies taking a veteran like Konerko in a deal for Helton and cash. It would defeat the purpose of reducing the payroll. I also don't see KW giving that much up for Helton.

Now, a deal of prospects (Sweeney, Rogo, Tracey) for Helton and cash I could see as a possibility, but I just fail to see how either side would include Konerko in a deal such as this. Maybe Konerko and A prospect for Helton and some cash, not $30 mil.

Just my opinion though.

I think you're missing the point of including Konerko in the deal from the Rockies' end. At its essence, any Helton deal accomplishes two things for the Rockies: a.) it reduces payroll/allows flexibility (a la ARod's departure from Texas) and b.) it stocks the Rockies with some prospects that could help them compete in the long term.

Acquiring Konerko (in a Konerko + 2 prospects for Helton + cash deal) advances both these objectives. Konerko's contract is up after this season; there is a chance the Rockies would take on Konerko long term, but its more likely they would turn him right around and trade him again at the deadline to a contender for more prospects. (A week or two hitting at Coors certainly wouldn't do anything but help his stock.) Consider Konerko an "asset" to the Rockies as opposed to a player meant to replace Helton.

So, ultimately the Rockies would end up with a prospect or two from the Sox, a prospect or two from their second Konerko deal, and increased payroll flexibility from Helton's departure. Not too bad.

[Randar68]

Originally Posted by Knucksie

Now, a deal of prospects (Sweeney, Rogo, Tracey) for Helton and cash I could see as a possibility, but I just fail to see how either side would include Konerko in a deal such as this. Maybe Konerko and A prospect for Helton and some cash, not $30 mil.

1) This is all utter pipedream speculation
2) As was previously stated, you're utterly missing the point by a mile
3) No way the Sox could trade for Helton without dumping Konehead at the same time.

Konerko and/or Dye are free-bies. Teams look to take on expiring contracts in lieu of cash all the time. If they turn around and re-trade Konerko, they get more prospects, if they keep him, it's possible they could offer him arbitration and end up with 2 high draft picks (a la more prospects) depending on how he finishes the year)...

Meanwhile, it's better to have 70 million extra in the bank over the next 7 years to help rebuild the team all-around than the equivalent of 0 that they have now due to being committed to 100+ million or so to 1 player while they're perhaps the worst team in baseball (the NL at least)....

[Flight #24]

Originally Posted by Knucksie

I don't see the Sox sending Konerko, Sweeney, and a Tracey to Colorado for Helton and cash. Therefore the spiel about a mix of great prospects and solid veterans goes down the tubes.

Konerko was just an option in lieu of more cash. So maybe it's $25k+Konerko v. $30k. That gives the Rockies someone to put at 1B through this year and someone that they could probably resign at his current $8mil or even less depending on how he bounces back from his slow start. Or as noted, they could re-trade him or take the comp picks for letting him walk.

As for the Sox, with ARow & Podsednik, they only have 1 OF slot, and a plethora of options beginning with Anderson. Sweeney could move to 1B, but if you acquire Helton that becomes unnecessary. Tracey's behind at least McCarthy and Gio so is also somewhat expendable for the Sox given they have Buehrle & Garcia for 3 years and Contreras, Garland, Hernandez for 2 (and are IMO likely to resign Garland).