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  #31  
Old 11-21-2004, 03:44 PM
MisterB MisterB is offline
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Two points:

1) You can't trade players on the DL. Maggs was placed there 4 days before the Garcia deal.

2) Even the initial reports at the time Maggs went on the DL that second time estimated at least an 8 week stay. Frank was still active and wouldn't go back on the DL until 10 days after the Garcia deal.
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  #32  
Old 11-21-2004, 05:19 PM
dcb33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondafarm
Afraid I have been saying that since the day this trade was announced.
Too bad you disregarded the other comments I made that blew your argument up....
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  #33  
Old 11-21-2004, 06:31 PM
ondafarm ondafarm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcb33
Too bad you disregarded the other comments I made that blew your argument up....
Didn't disregard, was ignoring.

As for an arguement, anybody even Mags would have been preferable.

Untouchables in the White Sox organization are few: Buehrle and Thomas being the only ones other than Reed that I would have identified before the trade. As I said then.
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  #34  
Old 11-21-2004, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondafarm
Didn't disregard, was ignoring.

As for an arguement, anybody even Mags would have been preferable.

Untouchables in the White Sox organization are few: Buehrle and Thomas being the only ones other than Reed that I would have identified before the trade. As I said then.
But you can't ignore those points. First of all, you can't trade someone on the DL, and second, Seattle would've had to agree to the trade, which they would not have done. When the deal went down, Seattle was already out of contention and not looking for someone to help put them over the top. They were done. They wanted to start unloading high priced veterans and older players for prospects such as Jeremy Reed and Miguel Olivo. Until these players do well, and considering most recent "Top Sox Prospects" have not, I'm not going to criticize the trade.
To get a player of Garcia's calibur, you have to give up players of value.
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  #35  
Old 11-22-2004, 10:47 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondafarm
Untouchables in the White Sox organization are few: Buehrle and Thomas being the only ones other than Reed that I would have identified before the trade. As I said then.
What made made Reed untouchable? His .270 average at the time? His mediocre defense? His mediocre arm? His mediocre speed?

Besides his hustle and ability to take walks, the kid really isn't anything special. Maybe he'll blossom into a great leadoff man or maybe he won't. But I'd much rather have a proven frontline pitcher than a "maybe".
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  #36  
Old 11-22-2004, 11:02 AM
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JRIG JRIG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterB
Two points:

1) You can't trade players on the DL. Maggs was placed there 4 days before the Garcia deal.
Yes you can. It's just not done very often.
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  #37  
Old 11-22-2004, 12:00 PM
MisterB MisterB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRIG
Yes you can. It's just not done very often.
I stand corrected.

The point remains: why on earth would Seattle trade for someone who was on the DL, was due $7M for what even under the best scenario would have been about 1 month of actual playing time, and would be a FA at the end of the season? No way that deal gets done.
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  #38  
Old 11-22-2004, 05:12 PM
ondafarm ondafarm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdivaldi
What made made Reed untouchable? His .270 average at the time? His mediocre defense? His mediocre arm? His mediocre speed?

Besides his hustle and ability to take walks, the kid really isn't anything special. Maybe he'll blossom into a great leadoff man or maybe he won't. But I'd much rather have a proven frontline pitcher than a "maybe".
Have you seen him play? I sat between two scouts for Japanese teams for one of his games this past year and they both said he was the best player on the field.

Mediocre defense? His mediocre arm? His mediocre speed?

What is your definition of good speed, good defense and a good arm?

The same scouts, off the cuff, rated his speed just above, arm just below and defense equal to Ichiro at the same age.
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  #39  
Old 11-24-2004, 12:20 PM
Silly Maggs Silly Maggs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondafarm
No, but he and Ichiro will work well together batting 1-2.
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  #40  
Old 11-29-2004, 11:09 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondafarm
Have you seen him play? I sat between two scouts for Japanese teams for one of his games this past year and they both said he was the best player on the field.

Mediocre defense? His mediocre arm? His mediocre speed?

What is your definition of good speed, good defense and a good arm?

The same scouts, off the cuff, rated his speed just above, arm just below and defense equal to Ichiro at the same age.
Of course I've seen him play, and needless to say I was not impressed at all. He scuffled through ST and his time at Charlotte. Who was on the field when they said he was the best player, Borchard?

I love the kid's presence at the plate, but I seriously doubt he will ever hit for any sort of power or be much of a base stealer.
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  #41  
Old 12-19-2004, 05:34 PM
MHOUSE MHOUSE is offline
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How quickly we forget that we got Freddy Garcia in this trade. He is one of the best starters in the AL and was having a great season at the time. He pitched well for us down the stretch and we signed him to a very reasonable extension especially in comparison to what guys like Pavano, Wright, and Clement got.

You would rather have Pavano for 4 years $40 million? You're crazy. Pavano had ONE breakout season! Why would you rather have overpaid for that and kept Jeremy Reed than guaranteed yourself Garcia for 3 years especially after his success over the previous years? I would do that trade over again every time. Frontline pitching is a lot harder to come by than unproven outfield prospects.
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  #42  
Old 12-19-2004, 06:23 PM
Shingotime!! Shingotime!! is offline
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Quote:
He pitched well for us down the stretch and we signed him to a very reasonable extension especially in comparison to what guys like Pavano, Wright, and Clement got.
All i remember was a bloated era and a couple horrible starts which resulted in him going on the DL and missing the next 2 starts.
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