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  #31  
Old 11-19-2017, 06:49 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Maybe this point has been already made, but could it be the Sox do a good job of keeping their players off the DL as a whole but some key contributors (like Rondon) consistently get hurt or get hurt at inopportune times?

Also, and this might be a separate argument, couldn’t you argue some seasons have been derailed by injuries even though the Sox might not have had a lot of guys on the DL (like in 2004?)?
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  #32  
Old 11-19-2017, 06:55 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Absolutely WhiteSox5187 (paste not working).
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  #33  
Old 11-19-2017, 06:57 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
Maybe this point has been already made, but could it be the Sox do a good job of keeping their players off the DL as a whole but some key contributors (like Rondon) consistently get hurt or get hurt at inopportune times?
I would hardly call Cleuluis Rondon a key contributor -- and he's not even in the system any more.

Last edited by A. Cavatica; 11-19-2017 at 08:55 PM.
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  #34  
Old 11-19-2017, 07:36 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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I thought he was talking about Hector.
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  #35  
Old 11-19-2017, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Not to mention the change in baseballs, mound height, the steroid era, smaller lighter bats, etc.
Exactly, there are many variables over the years. Smaller strike zone would be another one. However, those variables I suppose would be distributed relatively across the league. Going from cavernous old Comiskey, with a 440-ft centerfield at one point as late as 1980, to the launching pad at New Comiskey, especially after they moved the bullpens in 2001 was a huge change for the franchise.

That said, the Indians moved from Municipal Stadium to the Jake, and the Yankees eventually moved to a smaller park, the Royals moved their fences in, etc. So even the Sox aren't alone in that.

But overall, saying the Sox traditionally don't hit homers is one of those sort of blanket statements that don't apply anymore, like when people talk about "Bears-style defense" or playing in "Bears weather". "Bears weather" was a fun concept in 1986, but Otis Wilson doesn't play football anymore.
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  #36  
Old 11-19-2017, 08:15 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Comparing 2017 to any other year is comparing autos and and apples. The 10 Day DL changed everything. It allowed teams to DL guys more readily than in the past. It also allowed the Dodgers to rest up their starters for the postseason.
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  #37  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:23 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
The disabled list, especially this year with the ten day, has been used to rest players. You must look at the reasons why these players end up on the DL.

That is if you want to approach the debate with rigor.

https://www.southsidesox.com/2017/10...ured-white-sox

https://www.southsidesox.com/2017/5/...dy-in-contrast

https://southsideshowdown.com/2017/0...-south-siders/

The White Sox have had a number of players on their roster this season with legitimate physical injuries.

It's a real problem that the team needs to address.
None of these articles casts any light on whether the Sox have faced any more of fewer “legitimate physical injuries” than any of the other 29 MLB teams. Thus, they do not provide much in the way of support of the notion that injuries for the Sox have been worse than the rest of MLB.
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  #38  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:24 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
You completely lost me with this one. AS A FRANCHISE the Sox have not been known for hitting home runs. They hit 186 in a season...somehow that doesn't matter OK then...

I'm done here.
“I’m done here” is a common sign that one has a weak position.
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  #39  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post

“In my day, players played through pain. Pitchers threw complete games and we didn’t have five man rotations and eight man bullpens. Catchers weren’t given Sundays off. We ran the ball 45 times and played tougher and tackled better and they didn’t call ticky tack pass interference and linebackers didn’t get fined for sneezing on the quarterback. And kids paid attention to the game and listened to their parents, and they didn’t pass out participation trophies, and school was harder and we got jobs and worked hard and didn’t complain. And it was better then, and we had just two uniforms - home and away - and nobody wore teal or purple or black - and we won more games and we were all grateful and we liked it.”
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  #40  
Old 11-20-2017, 04:12 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
None of these articles casts any light on whether the Sox have faced any more of fewer “legitimate physical injuries” than any of the other 29 MLB teams. Thus, they do not provide much in the way of support of the notion that injuries for the Sox have been worse than the rest of MLB.
The argument was which team has the greater injuries. I am speaking about the pitching staffs; their collective depth.

You looked at DL number and conflated that with injury. There is not direct correlation. That why I mentioned that one has to look at the numbers within the numbers.

It takes an understanding of the problem; it takes rigor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
“I’m done here” is a common sign that one has a weak position.
Says the poster that goes pure vanilla on DL numbers correlating them to true injury and impact.

Just on 2017 you're wrong: https://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-d...-list-tracker/
https://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-r...depth-tracker/
https://www.rosterresource.com/mlb-closer-depth-chart/

Bludgeoning another poster does not mean you've won an argument.

Last edited by Grzegorz; 11-20-2017 at 04:29 AM.
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  #41  
Old 11-20-2017, 07:36 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
Bludgeoning another poster does not mean you've won an argument.
Lip's response to the home runs hypo was evidence that he might not be grasping at all what I was saying. I appreciate that you did some extra digging and brought some more evidence to the discussion. Thank you.

So what do you purport that the links you sent show? I see the Sox 2017 injuries impacted their roster more than 21 other teams in MLB, per Roster Resource's metric. 9th is still not "there's a serious problem here that needs to be addressed!"
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  #42  
Old 11-20-2017, 02:41 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Kittle42:

I believe this organization has to look at what they're doing to get these guys ready and keep them as healthy as possible.

I'd hate to see the building blocks of the future injured because of carelessness.
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  #43  
Old 11-24-2017, 02:20 PM
FallOfFingolfin FallOfFingolfin is offline
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Fans of every team thinks their team has the worst injury luck, just like all fans think their team sucks with RISP and hate their bullpen.
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