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  #16  
Old 08-02-2014, 09:18 PM
ZombieRob ZombieRob is offline
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Hahn deserves to hire his own management team. Robin is just in over his head.
  #17  
Old 08-02-2014, 10:49 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
I would have to disagree. Hitting in front of Abreu, OBP is far and away the most important thing. What good is 0 for 5 in front of Abreu?!? We'd be better off with Dunn batting second rather than Beckham.
A hitter who draws a lot of walks hitting sixth or seventh will draw far fewer walks hitting second if Abreu is hitting third. Where you hit in the order, who is on deck when you hit, affects your on-base percentage.

Dunn wouldn't walk nearly as much if he were hitting in front of Abreu.

Tonight, of course, Beckham had two more hits than Dunn, and neither of them walked.
  #18  
Old 08-03-2014, 01:06 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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I wouldn't be opposed to Beckham not batting anywhere at all, let alone second. Now that the trade deadline has passed, any idea of "showcasing" him is done. Let Semien get the at-bats up here. Beckham can play once or twice a week and come in late as a defensive replacement.
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  #19  
Old 08-03-2014, 08:16 PM
MountainCur MountainCur is offline
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Not saying Bacon should hit second. But Ventura's reasoning in not putting Alexei there has to be the GIDP.

In 62 plate appearances Ramirez has GIDP 5 times while batting second.

Bacon has GIDP 9 times in 276 PA when batting second - a rate well over twice as good as Ramirez's.

It is interesting though that when Gillaspie has bat second he has a 435/462/565 line - with no GIDP.

But that is a mesley 26 PA.
  #20  
Old 08-03-2014, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MountainCur View Post
Not saying Bacon should hit second. But Ventura's reasoning in not putting Alexei there has to be the GIDP.

In 62 plate appearances Ramirez has GIDP 5 times while batting second.

Bacon has GIDP 9 times in 276 PA when batting second - a rate well over twice as good as Ramirez's.

It is interesting though that when Gillaspie has bat second he has a 435/462/565 line - with no GIDP.

But that is a mesley 26 PA.
I would bat Gillaspie in the 2 hole. But then again, I don't care about the lefty-righty stuff all that much, and stacking Eaton and Gillaspie together doesn't bother me. I guarantee that would bother the White Sox braintrust. They believe in that lefty-righty stuff to a fault.
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  #21  
Old 08-03-2014, 09:38 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
A hitter who draws a lot of walks hitting sixth or seventh will draw far fewer walks hitting second if Abreu is hitting third. Where you hit in the order, who is on deck when you hit, affects your on-base percentage.

Dunn wouldn't walk nearly as much if he were hitting in front of Abreu.

Tonight, of course, Beckham had two more hits than Dunn, and neither of them walked.
You're probably right. Anyone in front of abreu probably wouldn't get on base more than Beckham. If Gillespie batted 2nd he'd probably walk negative times and reach base no more than 26%. In fact, the way I remember it during Frank's tenure the sox employed a dummy to bat second since there's no way anyone batting in front of a hitter like that was going to reach base anyway.
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  #22  
Old 08-03-2014, 09:42 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
You're probably right. Anyone in front of abreu probably wouldn't get on base more than Beckham. If Gillespie batted 2nd he'd probably walk negative times and reach base no more than 26%. In fact, the way I remember it during Frank's tenure the sox employed a dummy to bat second since there's no way anyone batting in front of a hitter like that was going to reach base anyway.
haha. I agree completely. The idea that Gordon only gets on base 26% of the time because of Abreu is hysterical. If the argument is for batting average... then What the hell... he is barely above the Mendoza line...

I am not saying the Sox need to go Vegan, but its time to remove Bacon from the menu..
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  #23  
Old 08-04-2014, 05:06 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
You're probably right. Anyone in front of abreu probably wouldn't get on base more than Beckham. If Gillespie batted 2nd he'd probably walk negative times and reach base no more than 26%. In fact, the way I remember it during Frank's tenure the sox employed a dummy to bat second since there's no way anyone batting in front of a hitter like that was going to reach base anyway.
You are missing the point. Adam Dunn doesn't walk because he has a small strike zone. He actually has a pretty big strike zone. Historically, he has walked a lot because there is a greater risk of getting hurt if you throw him strikes. Put him in front of Abreu, and he will see more strikes because Abreu presents a bigger threat. What you would be left with for Dunn getting on base would be his batting average and a smattering of walks due to pitchers being wild. There is a chance that batting Dunn in front of Abreu could turn him into a .300 hitter, but it isn't a realistic one. Pitchers would rather pitch to Dunn than Abreu. In the first homestand of the year, Abreu was intentionally walked twice with Dunn hitting behind him.

If you had someone who was identical to Abreu in every way hitting behind Abreu, you would see Abreu getting fewer walks.
  #24  
Old 08-04-2014, 05:37 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiSoxGal85 View Post
I agree - put Gillapsie or Alexei 2nd. And I'd prefer Gillapsie, who has been a consistent contact hitter this season. IMHO, there's way too much weight placed on the lefty-right stuff.
Thank you. I find that etched in stone rule ever so tiresome.
  #25  
Old 08-04-2014, 06:02 PM
Maximo Maximo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
You are missing the point. Adam Dunn doesn't walk because he has a small strike zone. He actually has a pretty big strike zone. Historically, he has walked a lot because there is a greater risk of getting hurt if you throw him strikes. Put him in front of Abreu, and he will see more strikes because Abreu presents a bigger threat. What you would be left with for Dunn getting on base would be his batting average and a smattering of walks due to pitchers being wild. There is a chance that batting Dunn in front of Abreu could turn him into a .300 hitter, but it isn't a realistic one. Pitchers would rather pitch to Dunn than Abreu. In the first homestand of the year, Abreu was intentionally walked twice with Dunn hitting behind him.

If you had someone who was identical to Abreu in every way hitting behind Abreu, you would see Abreu getting fewer walks.
Let's hope that's A. Garcia next year.
  #26  
Old 08-05-2014, 10:00 AM
34 Inch Stick 34 Inch Stick is offline
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The Sox were talking about hitting Garcia second during spring training.

If they were insistent on l-r, would it be foolish to drop Abreu to fourth and bat Gillaspie third? That is a nice first four but I'm not sure I'd want to keep Abreu from batting in the first inning and more often.
  #27  
Old 08-22-2014, 03:19 PM
#1swisher #1swisher is offline
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Default Beckham's replacement batting second

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