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Old 07-28-2014, 02:42 PM
kufram kufram is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Part of the problem is the pitchers being limited to so many innings as starters are usually done after 100 pitches, this means more relief pitchers and less position players on the roster. The Sox usually carry 12 pitchers, sometimes 13, after the starting lineups that leaves 3 or 4 position players with one being the spare catcher which really limits what a manager can do. I'm surprised we aren't seeing more pitchers used as pinch runners.
Well, with pitchers taking up half of the rosters and relievers sometimes pitching one whole inning we shouldn't expect them to be able to contribute in any way outside their comfort zone where they are safe.
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:58 PM
Crestani Crestani is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I personally prefer they let the pitchers focus on pitching and get a real bench and one not weighed down by the fact that we have essentially 3-4 players on the roster who should only realistically be playing 1B or DH.

It's also obviously more than being able to just run, I'm sure any of the Sox pitchers could handle just running from base to base with their head down, but it's also about being situationally aware of how to run the bases well. Regardless of how hard you work guys on the fundamentals of baserunning, if they are not doing it with any regularity in actual game situations, they will make mental mistakes that, at best, will cost the teams outs and, at worst, will result in injury.

Yeah, The Sox would be in deep **** if Rienzo would have pinch ran in that situation and sprained his ankle...OMG...!!!
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:09 PM
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by Crestani View Post

Yeah, The Sox would be in deep **** if Rienzo would have pinch ran in that situation and sprained his ankle...OMG...!!!
Uh, obviously you wouldn't burn a bullpen pitcher in a close, late game situation, right? Duh? What happens if the game goes 14 innings and the Sox run out of pitchers because they burned one to run the bases in the 9th? You would obviously use a starter and yes, it would be a situation if they were to hurt themselves and have to miss several starts.

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Old 07-28-2014, 03:43 PM
hawkjt hawkjt is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
No doubt! But this is the price you pay for the Paul Konerko Farewell Tour (among other reasons).

At least PK gets on base....he is hitting .333 as a pinch hitter this season.
Of course I guess if he is not on the team, so not getting those hits, that does eliminate any concern for running the bases.
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:45 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Us old schoolers are obviously missing something because teams dont pinch run their starting pitchers much. Its probably because of the money many starters make and no one can afford to mess up up a promising young starter due to pinch running. Thinking back to yesterdays game Im glad they didnt pinch run Danks. I want Danks traded to the yanks for some prospects. (yes I said some because I would like the Sox to eat some money to get more prospects). I would feel really horrible if Danks went down with a injury and the Sox lost this opportunity. Finally as someone said its just one game and Ill add in a meaningless season.
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:44 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
No doubt! But this is the price you pay for the Paul Konerko Farewell Tour (among other reasons).
Yeah, sucks Paulie had a pinch hit single yesterday to put runners at 1st and 3rd with nobody out.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:08 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Exactly. Ventura uses his hitters to pinch run (Sierra was running for what would be the lead run); he can't think 2 moves ahead.
Did he know at the time he inserted Sierra that he may have to let a .083 hitter bat?

It's not easy under pressure, but that's why managers generally train before becoming managers, either as ML coaches or ML managers.

I think Ventura was thinking several moves ahead. You don't need to get a hit to tie the game with a runner on third and less than two outs. I believe certainly it is silly to criticize his managerial skills for not using a pitcher as a pinch runner.

I would never criticize a manager for not using a pitcher to pinch-hit or pinch run, even though I saw the White Sox beat the Twins in old Metropolitan Stadium 5-4 42 years ago with two runs in the ninth inning, the first driven in by a pinch-hitting relief pitcher and the second scored by a pinch-running relief pitcher on an error forced by the baserunning of the pinch-hitting pitcher. In the ninth inning with the Sox down 4-3, the tying run on third with two outs, Twins closer Wayne Granger intentionally walked pinch-hitter Ed Herrmann. Pitcher Jim Geddes ran for Herrmann, who was slower than Konerko. Pitcher Terry Forster pinch-hit for Dick Allen's brother and singled in the tying run, sending Geddes to third. Forster's steal of second with two outs and the score tied resulted in a George Mitterwald throwing error that allowed Geddes to score the tiebreaking run before the Twins went down in the ninth.

I rarely see pitchers used to pinch-run and pinch-hit anymore. Doing so sounds more like something an inexperienced manager would do (one of the advantages to inexperience being a greater tendency to think out of the box. I don't know that any manager would have played it differently than Ventura did on Sunday, when the White Sox had a better chance of scoring than the night Chuck Tanner sent in Forster and Geddes from the bullpen to win the game on the bases. Konerko had been 3-for-4 against Perkins this year. Dunn was 0-for-3 with two strikeouts. Viciedo was 3-for-4 against Perkins this year with a double and a triple, but he struck out. After that, you don't have any flexibility to make moves without going to pitchers because you need hitters who have a better chance of making contact than Flowers. Flowers is less likely to bring in the tying run than De Aza. And it isn't like Sierra had a great history against Perkins, going hitless with a strikeout in two at bats against him.

Ventura didn't lose the game. The Sox should have won the game, despite Belisario and Guerra giving up the lead because Ventura put them in a position to win.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:08 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
Yeah, sucks Paulie had a pinch hit single yesterday to put runners at 1st and 3rd with nobody out.
His .333 batting average as a pinch hitter sucks too.
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