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  #16  
Old 07-19-2014, 10:06 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by PalehosePlanet View Post
This is not free agency; this is the draft - entirely different than your scenario. I have never seen a player sign for less because the team that drafted him deemed him an injury risk after picking him high in the draft. Have you? The injury risk guys are drafted later -- in every sport. Or better yet, I've never seen a team fabricate an injury concern to low-ball a player and use the remaining money to sign other players way over slot..
RA Dickey signed for much less after the Rangers drafted him and discovered he did not have that one ligament.
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  #17  
Old 07-19-2014, 11:00 PM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
RA Dickey signed for much less after the Rangers drafted him and discovered he did not have that one ligament.
Yeah, but not having a UCL is on the extreme side of things.

I still don't know how he's managed to pitch all these years without a UCL. Crazy. On the positive side, he'll never need Tommy John surgery.
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  #18  
Old 07-19-2014, 11:31 PM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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Originally Posted by PalehosePlanet View Post
This is not free agency; this is the draft - entirely different than your scenario. I have never seen a player sign for less because the team that drafted him deemed him an injury risk after picking him high in the draft. Have you? The injury risk guys are drafted later -- in every sport. Or better yet, I've never seen a team fabricate an injury concern to low-ball a player and use the remaining money to sign other players way over slot..
You were talking about risk, not specifically the draft: "If they think he's hurt then don't make an offer at all. You're a risk so we'll offer less money? What kind of garbage dealing is that?"

Teams will discount someone they feel there is a risk with. That doesn't mean they don't have to make an offer. A risk doesn't mean that the player is all or nothing when it comes to making a deal.

If the Astros were able to do all what you said they did, then they did it by the rules that both MLB and the MLBPA agreed to. Brady Aiken was playing by the rules that the MLB and MLBPA agreed to. If he's unhappy that he got a $5 million offer rather than a $6.5-7 million offer, then take it up with the MLBPA to not allow for teams to negotiate with their draft picks. Just remember that you'd also have to take away the player's right to negotiate to make it fair. Or, if he doesn't like it, he can go play overseas. Nothing says that the team has to offer a player the slot value for a position. Nothing says they even have to make him an offer. If they don't at the minimum value, he can become a FA.

Remember, they're drafting the RIGHTS to negotiate with him. They drafted the rights to do so, and it didn't work out. As a result of it not working out, they get a compensatory pick but have to wait a year to use it.

If the Sox didn't give Rodon what he was asking for above slot, would you not want the Sox to get a near-equal value compensatory pick next year? Should their be an investigation into any player asking for more than the slot value? Should that player have to forfeit their right to play in the majors if they ask for above slot? Is that garbage dealing to ask for above-slot? According to your logic of negotiation, it would be.

5187 beat me to it on RA Dickey.
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  #19  
Old 07-24-2014, 06:11 PM
#1swisher #1swisher is offline
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Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 1m

Can confirm union filed grievance against #Astros, as 1st reported by Murray Chass. Argues team tried to manipulate signings of Aiken, etc.
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  #20  
Old 07-24-2014, 06:28 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by soxfanreggie View Post
You were talking about risk, not specifically the draft: "If they think he's hurt then don't make an offer at all. You're a risk so we'll offer less money? What kind of garbage dealing is that?"

Teams will discount someone they feel there is a risk with. That doesn't mean they don't have to make an offer. A risk doesn't mean that the player is all or nothing when it comes to making a deal.

If the Astros were able to do all what you said they did, then they did it by the rules that both MLB and the MLBPA agreed to. Brady Aiken was playing by the rules that the MLB and MLBPA agreed to. If he's unhappy that he got a $5 million offer rather than a $6.5-7 million offer, then take it up with the MLBPA to not allow for teams to negotiate with their draft picks. Just remember that you'd also have to take away the player's right to negotiate to make it fair. Or, if he doesn't like it, he can go play overseas. Nothing says that the team has to offer a player the slot value for a position. Nothing says they even have to make him an offer. If they don't at the minimum value, he can become a FA.

Remember, they're drafting the RIGHTS to negotiate with him. They drafted the rights to do so, and it didn't work out. As a result of it not working out, they get a compensatory pick but have to wait a year to use it.

If the Sox didn't give Rodon what he was asking for above slot, would you not want the Sox to get a near-equal value compensatory pick next year? Should their be an investigation into any player asking for more than the slot value? Should that player have to forfeit their right to play in the majors if they ask for above slot? Is that garbage dealing to ask for above-slot? According to your logic of negotiation, it would be.

5187 beat me to it on RA Dickey.
I hate the rule too. Here is the problem I have with your argument. The Astro's basically invented something wrong with Aiken. There was no injury there. They just didn't like the size of his UCL. I guess ultimately it is there right to do so, but it just makes them more of a joke of a franchise, and Aiken can go dominate a Community College for a year and be a top pick again next year.
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  #21  
Old 07-25-2014, 01:11 AM
Steelrod Steelrod is offline
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It's simple. You guys always blame management and expect them to shoulder the risk.All he and his agent need do is under right the specific health risk spoken of and perhaps insure against it!
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  #22  
Old 07-25-2014, 11:28 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Well, its more, The Astro's saw something in his physical they did not like, and offered him like 1/3 the slot. Aiken does not have a torn UCL, and claims to be fully healthy. He can goto a JUCO and be drafted next year.
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I hate the rule too. Here is the problem I have with your argument. The Astro's basically invented something wrong with Aiken. There was no injury there. They just didn't like the size of his UCL. I guess ultimately it is there right to do so, but it just makes them more of a joke of a franchise, and Aiken can go dominate a Community College for a year and be a top pick again next year.
Okay, since you did it twice, I have to ask "Which Astro?"

I know people here get pissed when improper grammar is pointed out to them. But this error doesn't even look right. I'll also give you the benefit of the doubt that perhaps your smartphone's auto-correct did this.

...and I'm saving kittle42 the agony of seeing any more such posts.
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  #23  
Old 07-25-2014, 12:03 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by GoSox2K3 View Post
Okay, since you did it twice, I have to ask "Which Astro?"

I know people here get pissed when improper grammar is pointed out to them. But this error doesn't even look right. I'll also give you the benefit of the doubt that perhaps your smartphone's auto-correct did this.

...and I'm saving kittle42 the agony of seeing any more such posts.
wow! I have a tendency (a really bad one) to not check what I am typing on my phone, but geeze! I deserve that one!!!

You mean Aiken was not drafted by the Jetson's Dog?
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  #24  
Old 03-26-2015, 07:36 PM
Marqhead Marqhead is offline
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Looks like the Astros were right.

http://m.espn.go.com/mlb/story?story...e.com%2F%22%7D
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  #25  
Old 03-27-2015, 12:37 AM
QReedSale88 QReedSale88 is offline
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In all seriousness, can someone explain to me why these draft picks are paid this kind of money before they throw a pitch in the major leagues. It seems like a ton of money is wasted during the drafts.

Go easy on me, I honestly know nothing about the draft besides the order.
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  #26  
Old 03-27-2015, 01:12 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by QReedSale88 View Post
In all seriousness, can someone explain to me why these draft picks are paid this kind of money before they throw a pitch in the major leagues. It seems like a ton of money is wasted during the drafts.

Go easy on me, I honestly know nothing about the draft besides the order.
I mean, the bottom line is that it's supply and demand; baseball teams make millions and millions of dollars every year and, like in any other business, the best way to stay competitive it to have the best talent and the best way to acquire the best talent is to offer the most lucrative salary.

I will disagree with you that money is being "wasted," I think it's generally accepted that the Draft is the best and most financially savvy way to build a team in modern baseball. It's what allowed the small market Rays to compete with the mega-market Yankees and Red Sox for years. On the flip side, our own White Sox spent years not investing in the draft and the farm system and team suffered greatly because of it. Only now is the team's system starting to awaken out of a 10-15 year dry spell in which it produced very few MLB-caliber players, and much of that was thanks to the Sox's refusal to spend big money on signing bonuses for draftees. Penny wise, but pound foolish, for sure.

Let's look at Chris Sale, for instance. The Sox gave him a a $1.65 million signing bonus when they drafted him in 2010. That essentially gave the Sox 5-6 years of guaranteed MLB service for a guy who turned out to be one of the best pitchers in baseball; that's a great bargain for the team. Even if the Sox handed out 10 other similar contracts to college SP like Sale and they all turned out to be duds, hitting on one star in the draft makes the entire thing worthwhile. Sale has pitched for the Sox for 5 years now, between salary and draft bonus, they have paid him under $7.5 million. Total. For a guy who is basically one of the 2-3 best SP in the American League. That's an absolute steal. 5 years of Sale on the open market is probably worth $100 million right now. Maybe more. It's easy to look at these big sums getting paid to kids who fizzle out and never make the Show, but the return on investment is still hugely in favor of the teams, that's why they'll eagerly give them out.

If you think it's crazy now, though, you should have been around before the new CBA was implemented (around 2010ish I think). Now teams are basically given a budget of bonus money they can use (the amount is calculated based on the number and location of their draft picks) that essentially ties teams down to more reasonable costs. But before that, teams had little leverage in the process, other than hoping players wouldn't want to sit out a year and go back through the Draft. Things were much more chaotic back then.
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  #27  
Old 03-27-2015, 01:13 AM
StillMissOzzie StillMissOzzie is offline
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IMO this is Casey Close trying to spin himself into a new Boras. Even Boras said he wouldn't have let it get to this point.
I was going to say that these are dark days indeed when Scott Bora$ comes out looking like the voice of reason - on ANYTHING!
However, with this guy Aiken ending up needing TJ surgery and making the Astros look a little bit smarter, my faith in humanity has been restored. Go back under the rock you crawled from and whine about Kris Bryant some more, Scott.

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  #28  
Old 03-27-2015, 11:29 AM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I mean, Boras is great at his job. If you were an mlb player, who would you rather have representing you?

The man is incredible as his job. He isn't paid to look out for the team or anything like that, he is paid to look out for his players, to get them every cent. As a Sox fan, I don't particularly care for him, but if I was a player, and I was good enough, he would be my agent.
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  #29  
Old 03-27-2015, 02:39 PM
Irishsox1 Irishsox1 is offline
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The Astros are the real winners here. After they drafted him they got word he had a bad elbow and did the smart thing by not signing him. The baseball union can file all the grievances they want, the surgery speaks for itself.
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  #30  
Old 03-27-2015, 03:23 PM
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The Astros are the real winners here. After they drafted him they got word he had a bad elbow and did the smart thing by not signing him. The baseball union can file all the grievances they want, the surgery speaks for itself.
They certainly save a little bit of cash but they also came out of the thing looking like real slimebags, so I guess that counts as a win?
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