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  #16  
Old 07-03-2014, 10:46 AM
Tragg Tragg is online now
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Jesus Montero is hardly giving him away, he was a much better prospect than Tank ever was.
I was speaking in general regarding Tank
Regarding Montero, he has been abysmal; and had be been a Sox and put up those numbers here, people would want him long gone.
Be if he's a top defensive catcher that might make some sense as there's a foundation. I think we should target defensive catchers anyway, and accept offensive weakness there.

Last edited by Tragg; 07-03-2014 at 10:55 AM.
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  #17  
Old 07-03-2014, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
After reading that scouting report you have to ask why any team would ever want Tank. Not much we could get for him but there are some dumb GMs out there so maybe one of them will take a chance on him but what could we get in return?
Sometimes teams see little things in a player's swing or (in the case of pitchers) their mechanics that they think they can fix. Sometimes guys need a change of scenery or a new coaching style/system to reach their potential. It doesn't happen often, but as has been referenced in this thread, sometimes busted out prospects do find a new life in a new environment.

Bottom line is Tank is 25 years old and has shown occasional flashes of competence (that yes, do get buried in his weeks and months long slumps), but if the price is just a team getting rid of a guy they're sick and tired of waiting for, these deals happen sometimes.
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  #18  
Old 07-03-2014, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Jesus Montero is hardly giving him away, he was a much better prospect than Tank ever was.
However much better Montero was than Viciedo in the arbitrary rankings on the pages of Baseball America is how much worse he has been than Viciedo on the actual field over the courses of their career. Tank's been bad for us, yes, but Montero has been an absolute nightmare for the Mariners ever since he arrived. Probably the only thing he's got going for him is that luckily for him, Pineda's been a gigantic disappointment with the Yankees as well, so there's still time for him to not go down as the dud of that trade.
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  #19  
Old 07-03-2014, 01:10 PM
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With the Mariners you're also talking about a team that plays Dustin Ackley (it's hard to find a worse hitting outfielder than this guy), James Jones and Michael Saunders in the outfield. I'm sure they'd love to swing one of those guys at us for Viciedo in a change of scenery trade, especially as Tank has far more power than any of them.
And I'm sure I wouldn't want the Sox to do it for one of those Mariners. The mariners always seem to have young pitching - that's where we should look.
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  #20  
Old 07-03-2014, 01:21 PM
dwalteroo dwalteroo is offline
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Originally Posted by tragg View Post
the mariners always seem to have young pitching - that's where we should look.
+1
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  #21  
Old 07-03-2014, 04:52 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Jose Bautista was garbage until he turned 29; Carlos Gomez did nothing until 27. Exceptions, obviously, except that they didn't just turn into competent hitters, they turned into exceptional hitters. It doesn't mean that you should hold onto everyone until they are 27.
It just means that you need to be careful and there's not reason to give him away.
I get your point and it is a vaild one. However, Tank would have to be a very late bloomer at this point and after 1500 plate appearances in the bigs now, the likelihood of him figuring it out becomes less and less. I think we know what we have and I'm pretty sure Hahn/KW knew it as well which is why they replaced him with Avisail Garcia and viewed him as a part time player. Tank has been given ample opportunity on this organization and I certainly wouldn't fault them for wanting to move on from him.

Tank has always tantalized with his power to all fields, but doesn't have the baseball acumen (or willingness) to cut down on his swing to become a better hitter. He fouls a lot of hittable pitches straight back because of his long swing. The flashes of success come when he stops overswinging for a few weeks but inevitably, his old habits always return. Tank's terrible defense (.958 fielding % and -1.2 dWAR) also make him a liability to the pitching staff and in order to make him worth the starting role, he needs to hit FAR better than he has done to make him worthwhile. I think the reshaping of the White Sox would be better without Tank in the long term OF plans.
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Originally Posted by Moses_Scurry View Post
I have to admit, I'll be sad to see the Tank go. I was really excited the day they signed him. I was seeing Miguel Cabreras in my eyes. I was probably almost as excited as when they signed Abreu. I really wish he had been a better player for us.
I didn't see Miguel Cabrera in him but what I thought this guy was going to be was another Carlos Lee. With the talent and strength he has, he *should* be a 30HR/100RBI guy every year just like Caballo was. One of the reasons I'm hard on Tank is because I believe the ability is still there if he would only listen to his coaches and stop swinging for the next solar system.
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  #22  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:07 AM
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No doubt he has weaknesses and the odds are against him developing into a good player. But I don't think Avisail was brought in to replace him - the main reason Avisail was brought in was because he was the only offer for Peavy that our front office thought was really an elite prospect (those Red Sox Middleton et al were not). He replaced Rios anyway. But more importantly, you said he not only knows what to do to fix it but can actually fix it. There's something to build on there with good coaching.
And what are we going to get for him by moving him? Maybe something, as teams are interested in him. Maybe they see what you see and think they can bring some consistency to him. If the price is reasonable, fine. This article suggests that teams would be able to give at least something for him (Maurer has good stuff, albeit bad numbers).http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/b...rc=desktop&wjb

But really, the Sox have one marketable player that I would assume we're willing to trade, that should bring significant return. And trading him should be selling high: Alexei Ramirez.

Last edited by Tragg; 07-04-2014 at 10:23 AM.
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  #23  
Old 07-06-2014, 09:10 AM
mrwag mrwag is offline
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I have to ask a real question here - why don't we try to flip him for an arm and call up Jordan Danks? Isn't he a better fielder, same bat as Viciedo essentially? Wouldn't it give us a little more defense and speed and possibly bring in some bullpen help for the future? I don't follow the team like I used to so maybe you all know more than I do, but I didn't think Jordan Danks ever really hurt us, at least no more so than anyone else.
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  #24  
Old 07-06-2014, 11:06 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by mrwag View Post
I have to ask a real question here - why don't we try to flip him for an arm and call up Jordan Danks? Isn't he a better fielder, same bat as Viciedo essentially? Wouldn't it give us a little more defense and speed and possibly bring in some bullpen help for the future? I don't follow the team like I used to so maybe you all know more than I do, but I didn't think Jordan Danks ever really hurt us, at least no more so than anyone else.
Jordan Danks is at best a 4th outfielder, he does not fit into the long term plans for the White Sox. Now if Viciedo can bring back a decent arm, I think you could live with him Danks in the outfield for the rest of the year but it's not like you have a long term replacement with him.
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  #25  
Old 07-06-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
Jordan Danks is at best a 4th outfielder.
As you said, 4th outfielder, at best.
I wouldn't mind seeing a good LF platoon next year, with 2 guys who can hit one side and can field well. Then you only need a 5th OF. Wonder if Gillaspie can play LF.
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  #26  
Old 07-06-2014, 12:34 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
Jordan Danks is at best a 4th outfielder, he does not fit into the long term plans for the White Sox. Now if Viciedo can bring back a decent arm, I think you could live with him Danks in the outfield for the rest of the year but it's not like you have a long term replacement with him.
With this season clearly a rebuilding season- it's basically an audition for the 3rd OF spot next year (to go along with Eaton and A. Garcia)- in house candidates for 2015 are J Danks, M. Semian, L. Garcia- the level of org talent that Hahn inherited from KW was incredibly low- we don't really have a legit outfield prospect above A ball in the entire system- one of the reasons Hahn had to bring back De Aza for this year.

In addition we have no legit prospects for catcher, starting pitching or closer above A ball- so if we can address any of those gaps in a trade with the Mariners- I'm for it.
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  #27  
Old 07-06-2014, 01:19 PM
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Michael Saunders, the guy mentioned over the winter, is actually looking good at the plate now. Could end up being a straight-up trade, righty for lefty outfielder. Apparently the Giants are rumored to be looking at Viciedo also.
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  #28  
Old 07-06-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Michael Saunders, the guy mentioned over the winter, is actually looking good at the plate now. Could end up being a straight-up trade, righty for lefty outfielder. Apparently the Giants are rumored to be looking at Viciedo also.
An outfield with Morse and Viciedo would be more brutal than an outfield with De Aza and Viciedo, especially in San Francisco with its Triples Alley and a disc bulging in Pagan's back.
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  #29  
Old 07-06-2014, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Michael Saunders, the guy mentioned over the winter, is actually looking good at the plate now. Could end up being a straight-up trade, righty for lefty outfielder. Apparently the Giants are rumored to be looking at Viciedo also.
make 'em throw in a pitcher, too. Maurer will do. Good stuff, coop can fix.
I'd like to see what kind of pitching they can give us for Alexei.
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