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  #16  
Old 06-08-2014, 02:13 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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The best player in baseball got the better of one of, if not the best, left-handed pitchers in baseball. It happens.

I definitely understand those of you who would want to either win or lose the game with a fresh arm out there, but the number of guys I would trust to pitch to Mike Trout with the bases loaded late in a game is very, very small, and Chris Sale is one of them. Add the fact that Sale was cruising up to that point, and I can live with the decision.
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  #17  
Old 06-08-2014, 02:21 AM
tstrike2000 tstrike2000 is offline
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After the error by Alexei, Robin really needed to pull Chris, if not earlier. Dumb, just dumb.
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  #18  
Old 06-08-2014, 02:22 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Bad decision making is bad. What exactly was the goal, to let Sale get back to the 130 pitch count again? That worked so well the first time.

Ugh, brutal loss, pin this one squarely on Robin's chest. No excuse for not pulling Sale the second the shutout was gone, but when the next guy reached base only a dumbass would have left him in. Once the bases were loaded how the **** does he pitch to Trout?!!?!?!?

Yo Robin, making that call is what managers do. You don't leave it up to a guy with an ego like Sale. He's NEVER going to tell you it's time to come out. YOU HAVE TO BE THE BAD GUY!

If you can't do that, you should ****ing quit...

I repeat... ugh...
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...

It's not the first time this has happened with Ventura. It's obvious he has no clue, which is hard to believe in this case considering Sale's arm history. Shockingly bad managing. It's really professional negligence.

Watching Ventura this season has been the same as watching De Aza this season. It's a repeat of the same old stuff from last year's debacle. They are what they are. It's a joke that Hahn extended Ventura's contract.

But rather than continue to beat up an incompetent manager, I'd like to call out some others. Don Cooper and Mark Parent should not be allowing Ventura to take down the team in this manner. I can't believe either agree with Ventura's nonsense. But then that would make them as bad as Ventura as far as not having the guts to do the right thing an, in their case, say something to Ventura.

Which brings us to Steve Stone.

Stone knew what was going down as it was happening, but didn't say boo about it. He pulled a Hawk and went silent. For a guy who can criticize others quite a bit and come off as a smug smartass on the radio, Stone sure was quiet when Ventura fell asleep in the dugout.
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  #19  
Old 06-08-2014, 02:52 AM
thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Stone knew what was going down as it was happening, but didn't say boo about it. He pulled a Hawk and went silent. For a guy who can criticize others quite a bit and come off as a smug smartass on the radio, Stone sure was quiet when Ventura fell asleep in the dugout.
Yes, it's the TV color analyst's fault for not being critical of the manager at a crucial point in the game. Had he been louder, Sale would have been pulled sooner. GMAB.
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  #20  
Old 06-08-2014, 02:58 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by cards press box View Post

One more point: Ventura defers to Don Cooper on pitching decisions or at least he has. So I have to wonder -- was Cooper on board with how the 8th inning was handled tonight?

I think you are correct, everyone is crucifying the wrong guy.
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  #21  
Old 06-08-2014, 03:02 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post

Stone knew what was going down as it was happening, but didn't say boo about it. He pulled a Hawk and went silent. For a guy who can criticize others quite a bit and come off as a smug smartass on the radio, Stone sure was quiet when Ventura fell asleep in the dugout.
I bet he got the do not question decisions on the field message from above, as his partner has always abided by.
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  #22  
Old 06-08-2014, 04:03 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
I bet he got the do not question decisions on the field message from above, as his partner has always abided by.
Well, I can tell you that Darrin Jackson and, to a lesser but significant extent, Ed Farmer regularly criticize the team. They don't take cheap shots or belabor things, but they tell you what's happening. I know people are fond of criticizing the Sox radio team, but Jackson and Farmer called things the way they saw them in 2013 and are doing so again this season. Nobody in any other baseball booth in Chicago can touch their daily honesty.

To the person who felt the need to include an eye-roll after I called out Stone, my point, of course, was not to say that it affected the game. I suspect you knew that, but just couldn't help an inclination to take umbrage at something even if it was a phantom point. My point of calling out Stone was just to note that he's another guy not doing his job, and probably for the same reasons that those in the dugout are not doing theirs. Ventura is afraid to take out Sale, Cooper and Parent are afraid to school Ventura, and Stone is afraid to tell the viewer what's happening.

Last edited by BainesHOF; 06-08-2014 at 04:08 AM.
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  #23  
Old 06-08-2014, 06:29 AM
kufram kufram is offline
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I just watch the Trout at bat. I don't have the rest of the game to colour my view. Sale looked strong and confident. He was throwing at 95-96. The last pitch was an awfully good change-up that one of the best hitters in baseball managed to not only put the bat on but muscle out of the park. There was nobody on our staff that was going to pitch any better to Trout. If you need to blame someone than Ventura is as good as anyone, but Sale wasn't even sweating. He just got beat.

The book of baseball today says the manager must remove Sale. I'm not defending Ventura or Coop or anyone else. Just saying.
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  #24  
Old 06-08-2014, 08:09 AM
jdm2662 jdm2662 is offline
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Good thing I went to bed before the bottom of the eighth. I was surprised Sale even started the 8th, let alone pitch as long.
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  #25  
Old 06-08-2014, 08:10 AM
24thStFan 24thStFan is offline
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http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/2014/...uts-grand-slam

Ventura and Sale reply to criticism with typical cliches.
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  #26  
Old 06-08-2014, 08:11 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by cards press box View Post
That has to be the most awful loss of this year, a real door slammer.

As the Sox get better -- and they are on the upswing -- these kind of losses will be more and more rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Bad decision making is bad. What exactly was the goal, to let Sale get back to the 130 pitch count again? That worked so well the first time.

Ugh, brutal loss, pin this one squarely on Robin's chest. No excuse for not pulling Sale the second the shutout was gone, but when the next guy reached base only a dumbass would have left him in. Once the bases were loaded how the **** does he pitch to Trout?!!?!?!?

Yo Robin, making that call is what managers do. You don't leave it up to a guy with an ego like Sale. He's NEVER going to tell you it's time to come out. YOU HAVE TO BE THE BAD GUY!

If you can't do that, you should ****ing quit...

I repeat... ugh...
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Originally Posted by Soxman219 View Post
This is the type of game where I can't watch another one for a few days. Such a heart-breaker.
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Not if Robin can't learn when to pull the ****ing starter who is in the middle of melting down for everyone to see.

Back end of the bullpen has been solid. Once the shutout was gone, you have to go get someone. Sale was pushing 100 pitches already anyway and he's 3 starts removed from the DL probably due to over work earlier in the season.
I literally fell asleep during the game last night. Sox were up 5-0. I wake up, moments after the Grand Slam, and I'm thinking, "Huh? What happened? How did this happen?" Obviously I was not the only one who fell asleep.

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Originally Posted by cards press box View Post
It might melt down, anyway.

Ventura had a brutal 8th inning tonight, I totally agree with that. I just hope the bad decision making tonight was an aberration.

One more point: Ventura defers to Don Cooper on pitching decisions or at least he has. So I have to wonder -- was Cooper on board with how the 8th inning was handled tonight?
Good point. We may never know though what Cooper really thought. Cooper does not appear to be but he is cagey and smart. If Cooper wanted Sale out of the game, he won't publicly say that. Publicly Cooper will back Robin.

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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes...

It's not the first time this has happened with Ventura. It's obvious he has no clue, which is hard to believe in this case considering Sale's arm history. Shockingly bad managing. It's really professional negligence.

Watching Ventura this season has been the same as watching De Aza this season. It's a repeat of the same old stuff from last year's debacle. They are what they are. It's a joke that Hahn extended Ventura's contract.

But rather than continue to beat up an incompetent manager, I'd like to call out some others. Don Cooper and Mark Parent should not be allowing Ventura to take down the team in this manner. I can't believe either agree with Ventura's nonsense. But then that would make them as bad as Ventura as far as not having the guts to do the right thing an, in their case, say something to Ventura.

Which brings us to Steve Stone.

Stone knew what was going down as it was happening, but didn't say boo about it. He pulled a Hawk and went silent. For a guy who can criticize others quite a bit and come off as a smug smartass on the radio, Stone sure was quiet when Ventura fell asleep in the dugout.
Stone knows who signs his checks, always has, except perhaps in his last year or two with the Cubbies, most of Stone's critical comments are reserved for the opposition.
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  #27  
Old 06-08-2014, 08:11 AM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Well, I can tell you that Darrin Jackson and, to a lesser but significant extent, Ed Farmer regularly criticize the team. They don't take cheap shots or belabor things, but they tell you what's happening. I know people are fond of criticizing the Sox radio team, but Jackson and Farmer called things the way they saw them in 2013 and are doing so again this season. Nobody in any other baseball booth in Chicago can touch their daily honesty.

To the person who felt the need to include an eye-roll after I called out Stone, my point, of course, was not to say that it affected the game. I suspect you knew that, but just couldn't help an inclination to take umbrage at something even if it was a phantom point. My point of calling out Stone was just to note that he's another guy not doing his job, and probably for the same reasons that those in the dugout are not doing theirs. Ventura is afraid to take out Sale, Cooper and Parent are afraid to school Ventura, and Stone is afraid to tell the viewer what's happening.
I agree that they are brutally honest. I can say that may be one of the only things I like about them.

I'll admit I conked out during the 8th and thought we had it in the bag. I guess like Danks' start against the Yankees on 5/24 we just couldn't pull it off. Have to regroup today and just complete the game.
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  #28  
Old 06-08-2014, 08:29 AM
Zakath Zakath is offline
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Just a typical Robin management job - Leave your pitchers in one or two hitters longer than you should have.

Of course, that's all set up by Alexei's error.
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  #29  
Old 06-08-2014, 08:53 AM
Railsplitter Railsplitter is offline
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Just a typical Robin management job - Leave your pitchers in one or two hitters longer than you should have.
Yeah. Two guys on and nobody out in 8th. Sounds like trouble brewing to me.
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  #30  
Old 06-08-2014, 09:04 AM
harwar harwar is offline
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Alexei's error sure didn't help things, but you could see how tired Cris was as he was facing Kendrick, and was really starting to lose it .. after Coop's pep talk, which was all one sided, Sale seemed to be running on a fresh supply of adrenaline, and was mostly relying on his fastball .. the pitch that Trout went down and out to get, wasn't much of a change, which isn't surprising considering Sale's physical condition just then .. i was thinking why not stay with the high fastballs that Trout kept chasing, and was clearly barely getting any wood on .. oh well,, shake it off and move on..
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