White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
Congratulations on winning the AL ROTY award unanimously, Jose!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 06-05-2014, 02:41 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 16,335
Default

It isn't just that the White Sox are a game over .500 in June. It's that the White Sox, with a payroll that has inspired much grief on these pages, have the same record as the Dodgers, with the highest payroll in the history of baseball. This seems to be a season where .500 might not be mediocre, at least not in terms of competing for a postseason spot.

Last night I was a bit worried after the Sox failed to score after getting Eaton on third with one out, especially after the Dodgers scored in the eighth. Especially with Danks starting and Belisario in the wings to close it out. I hope Belisario continues to close games effectively when he doesn't have something to prove to the team that dumped him.

Next is the Angels, and the Sox find themselves in the position the Yankees were in after playing the Cubs and staying in town to greet the Sox from a roadtrip. Maybe today there will be some Sox player sightings at Disneyland as the Sox make themselves at home for a week on the road in SoCal. I hope it translates into a good series against the Angels.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-05-2014, 02:54 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeview
Posts: 18,296
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kufram View Post
I've been thinking this exactly. Buehrle might be a stretch, but something like that. Plan for the future but live for today. If we are a couple of pitchers away from contending, which is not impossible this year, then you have to go for it. There seems to be a good chemistry with this team so I wouldn't mess with that too much. Maybe add by subtracting via Da Aza
And then next year, we could end up where we were last year.

Luckily, the Sox actually don't have much to trade in the way of prospects, still, so I hold out hope they don't do anything impulsive.
__________________
Ridiculousness across all sports:

(1) "You have no valid opinion because you never played the game."
(2) "Stats are irrelevant. This guy just doesn't know how to win."
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-05-2014, 02:56 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeview
Posts: 18,296
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
I read trade for a good starter from a few posters here. The problem with that is the number of expendable assets on the Sox to gain such a sought after commodity. Slim pickens (not the actor) on that front.
It's because some people think a team will give you one for the likes of Dunn, De Aza, and guys like Semien or something. "Trade for a great starter!" with no real thought of how to do it without dismantling 2015 are the rantings of Facebook posters.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-05-2014, 03:08 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 9,120
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
A couple years ago the Sox acquired Francisco Liriano for essentially nothing (Escobar whose a nice little middle infleld utility player, but we have seemingly dozens of those and Pedro Hernandez who is still a pretty lousy pitcher)...

So I could realistically see the Sox trying to flip 1-2 mediocre guys out of their upper MILB roster pool. Looking at the guys who will be FA after this year, a couple of potential targets... AJ Burnett, Roberto Heredia Hernandez, Colby Lewis, Brandon McCarthy, Edinson Volquez...

Just throwing that out there.
Something like the Liriano trade is exactly the type of move I could see the Sox making. A small market team could look to dump a couple months of salary on the Sox for a mid tier prospect. I don't see the Sox going "all in" and trying to acquire a James Shields or Jeff Samardzija and they probably won't. However, I have no problem at all if management decides to add a veteran player or two if they feel they can win this year. Honestly, I think some Sox fans are too in love with the rebuild "get bad before you get good" idea to accept the fact that the Sox *could* make the postseason this year. Isn't that the ultimate goal after all? I doubt Hahn is going to mortgage the entire future for this year but they also shouldn't bury their head in the sand and pretend they aren't 3 games back in the AL Central.
__________________
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done." -George Carlin
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-05-2014, 03:36 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeview
Posts: 18,296
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foulke You View Post
Honestly, I think some Sox fans are too in love with the rebuild "get bad before you get good" idea to accept the fact that the Sox *could* make the postseason this year. Isn't that the ultimate goal after all? I doubt Hahn is going to mortgage the entire future for this year but they also shouldn't bury their head in the sand and pretend they aren't 3 games back in the AL Central.
We already got bad before we got good - just don't know if this team is actually good yet.

I always want to win, but I have seen this team mortgage the future for a chance at a postseason in the past, and it's been a bad idea.

The White Flag Trade was so scrutinized, but it was a realistic, future-minded move at a time when many didn't appreciate those kinds of moves.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-05-2014, 04:54 PM
kufram kufram is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Of England
Posts: 1,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foulke You View Post
Something like the Liriano trade is exactly the type of move I could see the Sox making. A small market team could look to dump a couple months of salary on the Sox for a mid tier prospect. I don't see the Sox going "all in" and trying to acquire a James Shields or Jeff Samardzija and they probably won't. However, I have no problem at all if management decides to add a veteran player or two if they feel they can win this year. Honestly, I think some Sox fans are too in love with the rebuild "get bad before you get good" idea to accept the fact that the Sox *could* make the postseason this year. Isn't that the ultimate goal after all? I doubt Hahn is going to mortgage the entire future for this year but they also shouldn't bury their head in the sand and pretend they aren't 3 games back in the AL Central.
Exactly. Nobody is talking about mortgaging the future. We're a third of the way through the season and I'm hearing nothing but people saying that, should the opportunity present itself, you can't throw away today's possibilities. The future comes sooner than you think sometimes.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:03 PM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 54,261
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Tigers lost again, we're 2.5 GB 1st place and it's June.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:09 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Antioch, IL
Posts: 5,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kufram View Post
Exactly. Nobody is talking about mortgaging the future. We're a third of the way through the season and I'm hearing nothing but people saying that, should the opportunity present itself, you can't throw away today's possibilities. The future comes sooner than you think sometimes.
I think there are a few players that MAY not be part of the long term plan and could bring some talent in return (Ramirez and Beckham)- but if traded, the Sox are "white flagging it" when they are currently in a contending position (obviously could change between now and trade deadline)- those are prob the challenging decisions.

I don't think De Aza or Dunn will present much of a challenge- they aren't going to really bring anything in return any way that will help with rebuilding.

For me- I hope 100% that they keep Ramirez- we don't have a SS prospect on the way in the farm system- and I think we CAN contend in 2015- and hate to throw away another year or two on rebuilding while we have Abreu/Sale/Quintana + a number of pre-arb starting position players on the roster (A. Garcia, Eaton, Gillaspie, Flowers, etc.).

I like Beckham as well- but with the number of prospects on the way (mostly Sanchez and maybe Semian- I'm convinced Micah is headed towards LF based on his defense)- you have to consider it if you can get a good pitching prospect.
__________________
TomBradley72
http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/334c0314
2014 Record: 2-3
2005-2013 Record: 49-38
MLB Parks Visited: 24, MiLB Parks Visited: 11
"When I heard the National Anthem it hit me," Jose Abreu said through White Sox spokesperson Lou Hernandez. "I love the Anthem. When I learn English Iím going to sing it."
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:13 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 9,120
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
We already got bad before we got good - just don't know if this team is actually good yet.
I'm sure Hahn/KW will wait before making any moves. The team just got healthy (for the most part) and now they'll likely sit back and see what they got over the next month or so before deciding. Luckily, the deadline isn't until July 31st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I always want to win, but I have seen this team mortgage the future for a chance at a postseason in the past, and it's been a bad idea.
If they trade Micah Johnson, Tim Anderson, and Tyler Danish for 1.5 seasons of Jeff Samardzija, they deserve all the scrutiny you can muster. However, if they trade a Jared Mitchell for a Brandon McCarthy or a Trace Thompson for a Huston Street, then you shouldn't lose any sleep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
The White Flag Trade was so scrutinized, but it was a realistic, future-minded move at a time when many didn't appreciate those kinds of moves.
Ugh. Hated it then, and still hate it. Never felt lower as a Sox fan. An absolute PR disaster of a trade that ultimately yielded them only two useful relief pitchers and nothing more. Pennant races should never be surrendered when you are 3 games back. The Tribe lost 8 in a row after the deal too. Bad memories. This is likely a topic for another thread though.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:16 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeview
Posts: 18,296
Default

No one on this current ML roster should be close to "untouchable" except Abreu and Sale and possibly Eaton, even 2.5 games back on June 5.

Where you are in the standings when you make the deal should alter what kind of deal you make, but I don't think it should take Ramirez, Beckham, etc. off the block. It would take Quintana off the block, I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:20 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Antioch, IL
Posts: 5,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
The White Flag Trade was so scrutinized, but it was a realistic, future-minded move at a time when many didn't appreciate those kinds of moves.
They killed themselves with their fan base and especially right after Ventura had fought like hell to come back from the spring training ankle injury- all in the name of acquiring basically Foulke and Howry- not sure if it was really worth it.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:23 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Des Plaines, IL
Posts: 9,120
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Tigers lost again, we're 2.5 GB 1st place and it's June.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:26 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Minooka
Posts: 9,594
Default

The Sox are in a great spot to fully get on board with the reload.

Injuries are starting to hit, so you could get great value for a guy like Ramirez, even Beckham's value is close to an all time high (atleast post realization he is not a star player), Dunn could net you a couple prospects, heck even Danks might have value if he can keep his ERA below 4.50.

The thing you have to ask yourself when viewing this team: Would you rather have a year like 2 years ago, where the Sox compete but end up not making the playoffs, or maybe sneak in and get knocked out in round 1. Or would you rather the Sox unloaded some aging, non-long term pieces, and went into next year DEEP, with more young talent playing at the mlb level to go along with the depth to trade for players who help us when we are legitimately contenders.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:37 PM
asindc's Avatar
asindc asindc is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Washington, DC area
Posts: 7,593
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foulke You View Post
I'm sure Hahn/KW will wait before making any moves. The team just got healthy (for the most part) and now they'll likely sit back and see what they got over the next month or so before deciding. Luckily, the deadline isn't until July 31st.


If they trade Micah Johnson, Tim Anderson, and Tyler Danish for 1.5 seasons of Jeff Samardzija, they deserve all the scrutiny you can muster. However, if they trade a Jared Mitchell for a Brandon McCarthy or a Trace Thompson for a Huston Street, then you shouldn't lose any sleep.


Ugh. Hated it then, and still hate it. Never felt lower as a Sox fan. An absolute PR disaster of a trade that ultimately yielded them only two useful relief pitchers and nothing more. Pennant races should never be surrendered when you are 3 games back. The Tribe lost 8 in a row after the deal too. Bad memories. This is likely a topic for another thread though.
I agree, especially with the bolded parts. The White Flag Trade was only mitigated (to a small extent IMO) with the 2000 division title. Even so, still don't like it to this day.

If someone wants to give us someone of any kind of value for Jared Mitchell or someone similar, I say take it and don't look back.
__________________
"I have the ultimate respect for White Sox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Red Sox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country." Jim Caple, ESPN (January 12, 2011)


"We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the (bleeding) obvious is the first duty of intelligent men." ó George Orwell
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:46 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Antioch, IL
Posts: 5,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Dunn could net you a couple prospects
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:09 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.