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  #31  
Old 06-04-2014, 03:37 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Troy Tulowitzki plays at coors field, a big time hitter's park: He has a career OPS of .963 at home, and .818 on the road... Alexei Ramirez plays at USCF, a big time hitter's park: He has a career OPS of .756 at home and .697 on the road. So if you made Tulo play 162 games on the road, and Ramirez play 162 at home, Tulo will likely still finish with an OPS nearly 60 points higher...

For all the oo'ing and awing, Tulo has been the more consistent defender over his career with a higher average defensive WAR (Tulo averages 1.5 defensive WAR per year to Ramirez's 1.35). UZR, which tries to account for range, goes back and fourth. This year, Tulo is killing Ramirez, last year Tulo was higher, but Ramirez had a couple of years before that.

So anyone who agrees with Hawk, or wants to say its all because of Coors, sorry that you are wrong, but you are wrong.

This is where Hawk hating stats comes into play...
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  #32  
Old 06-04-2014, 03:51 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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For the record too, I think Hawk is a great guy. Have had the luxury of chatting with him on several occasions. He would be a GREAT Team Ambassador, pre-game, post-game etc. But during the game, he is just unbearable. He is costing us fans, kids growing up don't watch to watch him, and the Sox need to realize that.
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  #33  
Old 06-04-2014, 04:13 PM
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Chez Chez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Troy Tulowitzki plays at coors field, a big time hitter's park: He has a career OPS of .963 at home, and .818 on the road... Alexei Ramirez plays at USCF, a big time hitter's park: He has a career OPS of .756 at home and .697 on the road. So if you made Tulo play 162 games on the road, and Ramirez play 162 at home, Tulo will likely still finish with an OPS nearly 60 points higher...

For all the oo'ing and awing, Tulo has been the more consistent defender over his career with a higher average defensive WAR (Tulo averages 1.5 defensive WAR per year to Ramirez's 1.35). UZR, which tries to account for range, goes back and fourth. This year, Tulo is killing Ramirez, last year Tulo was higher, but Ramirez had a couple of years before that.

So anyone who agrees with Hawk, or wants to say its all because of Coors, sorry that you are wrong, but you are wrong.

This is where Hawk hating stats comes into play...
None of your fancy saber-stats account for TWTW!
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  #34  
Old 06-04-2014, 04:23 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
For the record too, I think Hawk is a great guy. Have had the luxury of chatting with him on several occasions. He would be a GREAT Team Ambassador, pre-game, post-game etc. But during the game, he is just unbearable. He is costing us fans, kids growing up don't watch to watch him, and the Sox need to realize that.

Is there any proof of that besides what guys like Boers and Bernstein say? I have a hard time believing that a young baseball fan would say "nah I'm not gonna watch my favorite team play baseball because I can't stand the announcer." If anything most tv's come with mute buttons. The product on the field is what bears watching or not in my opinion.
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  #35  
Old 06-04-2014, 04:25 PM
hawkjt hawkjt is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Troy Tulowitzki plays at coors field, a big time hitter's park: He has a career OPS of .963 at home, and .818 on the road... Alexei Ramirez plays at USCF, a big time hitter's park: He has a career OPS of .756 at home and .697 on the road. So if you made Tulo play 162 games on the road, and Ramirez play 162 at home, Tulo will likely still finish with an OPS nearly 60 points higher...

For all the oo'ing and awing, Tulo has been the more consistent defender over his career with a higher average defensive WAR (Tulo averages 1.5 defensive WAR per year to Ramirez's 1.35). UZR, which tries to account for range, goes back and fourth. This year, Tulo is killing Ramirez, last year Tulo was higher, but Ramirez had a couple of years before that.

So anyone who agrees with Hawk, or wants to say its all because of Coors, sorry that you are wrong, but you are wrong.

This is where Hawk hating stats comes into play...

He wants Alexei to make the All Star game, so he is going overboard.
I wish he would just limit the discussion to AL SS's....Alexei deserves to be on the All Star game but Tulo is in the NL, Hawk!
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  #36  
Old 06-04-2014, 04:33 PM
Steelrod Steelrod is offline
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I wonder how Babe Ruth became the "Bambino" without Hawk's assistance!
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  #37  
Old 06-04-2014, 04:36 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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I wonder how Babe Ruth became the "Bambino" without Hawk's assistance!

If Ruth was on the Sox and harrelson didnt coin the name Babe or Bambino, he would just call him George.
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  #38  
Old 06-04-2014, 07:09 PM
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For the record too, I think Hawk is a great guy. Have had the luxury of chatting with him on several occasions. He would be a GREAT Team Ambassador, pre-game, post-game etc. But during the game, he is just unbearable. He is costing us fans, kids growing up don't watch to watch him, and the Sox need to realize that.
What baseball announcer is being held back by the Chisox glass-ceiling that kids are just begging to want to watch?
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  #39  
Old 06-04-2014, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
Is there any proof of that besides what guys like Boers and Bernstein say?
I happened to turn these two clowns on for a bit this afternoon to hear them crapping all over Hawk with their typical old-man-hate schtick, which is funny since Boers is not that far behind Hawk and actually looks much worse for wear.

But, the statement came up that "all Hawk nicknames are horrible."

Now, I can't recall how many fizzled out, but Big Hurt, 1-Dog and El Caballo are pretty damn great, with Frank's being obviously the most enduring and perfect nickname for any big league player I can remember.

I'm not sure how you can take anyone seriously when they make ridiculous comments like that.
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  #40  
Old 06-04-2014, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Troy Tulowitzki plays at coors field, a big time hitter's park: He has a career OPS of .963 at home, and .818 on the road... Alexei Ramirez plays at USCF, a big time hitter's park: He has a career OPS of .756 at home and .697 on the road. So if you made Tulo play 162 games on the road, and Ramirez play 162 at home, Tulo will likely still finish with an OPS nearly 60 points higher...

For all the oo'ing and awing, Tulo has been the more consistent defender over his career with a higher average defensive WAR (Tulo averages 1.5 defensive WAR per year to Ramirez's 1.35). UZR, which tries to account for range, goes back and fourth. This year, Tulo is killing Ramirez, last year Tulo was higher, but Ramirez had a couple of years before that.

So anyone who agrees with Hawk, or wants to say its all because of Coors, sorry that you are wrong, but you are wrong.

This is where Hawk hating stats comes into play...
Have you actually watched any of the Sox games this year?

First of all, Hawk said he would prefer Alexei over Tulo THIS YEAR. There has been no discussion about last year, two years or four years ago. Alexei was brutal last year, and those numbers would be reflected in his career stat lines. Hawk, not one time that I've seen, has said anything other than, this year, he would prefer Alexei.

Don't try to twist the discussion.

It's not an asinine opinion or unreasonable comment by Hawk, and he doesn't need to be crucified over it. This year, their numbers are close enough that it is not unreasonable that you could lean towards Alexei due to the intangibles regarding the Cubans.
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  #41  
Old 06-04-2014, 07:40 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Have you actually watched any of the Sox games this year?

First of all, Hawk said he would prefer Alexei over Tulo THIS YEAR. There has been no discussion about last year, two years or four years ago. Alexei was brutal last year, and those numbers would be reflected in his career stat lines. Hawk, not one time that I've seen, has said anything other than, this year, he would prefer Alexei.

Don't try to twist the discussion.

It's not an asinine opinion or unreasonable comment by Hawk, and he doesn't need to be crucified over it. This year, their numbers are close enough that it is not unreasonable that you could lean towards Alexei due to the intangibles regarding the Cubans.
Who cares what year. I will take Tulo last year, this year, next year any year.
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  #42  
Old 06-04-2014, 07:48 PM
Lemon44 Lemon44 is offline
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From what I read, Abreu was also known as Yogi in Cuba. I guess Berra pretty much owns that one in the realm of US baseball, though.
Maybe they meant a Yogi different from the average bear.
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  #43  
Old 06-04-2014, 07:48 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Have you actually watched any of the Sox games this year?

First of all, Hawk said he would prefer Alexei over Tulo THIS YEAR. There has been no discussion about last year, two years or four years ago. Alexei was brutal last year, and those numbers would be reflected in his career stat lines. Hawk, not one time that I've seen, has said anything other than, this year, he would prefer Alexei.

Don't try to twist the discussion.

It's not an asinine opinion or unreasonable comment by Hawk, and he doesn't need to be crucified over it. This year, their numbers are close enough that it is not unreasonable that you could lean towards Alexei due to the intangibles regarding the Cubans.
Yes, I have watched the games. I was simply responding to the comment that Tulo is just a product of Coors field. Its an ignorant statement that lacks merit, especially since USCF is a bandbox and pretty much known for being the 2nd best hitters park in the game.

I am sorry that Tulo is better than Alexei, and that Hawk sounds foolish for saying it. The numbers are also not that close, Tulo is slugging 200 points higher than Alexei. I am not sure what intangibles you are speaking of, and Tulowitzki is way ahead right now in defensive metrics.

I am not discrediting Alexie's play, but this is an example of what Hawk does that makes people hate Hawk. It would literally be like if he tried to say that Quintana has been so good, he would take him over Clayton Kershaw.
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  #44  
Old 06-04-2014, 07:51 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
I happened to turn these two clowns on for a bit this afternoon to hear them crapping all over Hawk with their typical old-man-hate schtick, which is funny since Boers is not that far behind Hawk and actually looks much worse for wear.

But, the statement came up that "all Hawk nicknames are horrible."

Now, I can't recall how many fizzled out, but Big Hurt, 1-Dog and El Caballo are pretty damn great, with Frank's being obviously the most enduring and perfect nickname for any big league player I can remember.

I'm not sure how you can take anyone seriously when they make ridiculous comments like that.
I am not a big B & B fan, I am able to pick up the act of the show and tolerate them sometimes. But its funny. You are calling them out for extreme hyperbole, while defending Hawk and his own extreme hyperbole. You can be biased if you want, and thats fine, every fan has that right, but its almost the exact same thing.
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  #45  
Old 06-04-2014, 08:01 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
Is there any proof of that besides what guys like Boers and Bernstein say? I have a hard time believing that a young baseball fan would say "nah I'm not gonna watch my favorite team play baseball because I can't stand the announcer." If anything most tv's come with mute buttons. The product on the field is what bears watching or not in my opinion.
The thing is, most young kids dont have a favorite team yet. I have younger kids, and know a bunch of parents with kids in the 5-10 range who won't watch the Sox because they don't want their kids hearing Hawk screaming and cursing on the tv. Others grow tired of the constant umpire complaining. Hawk isn't bringing kids to the park, that is for sure.

I just long for the days when the Sox aren't a joke. Even when our play is good, Hawk Harrelson is a national circus act (what other home team TV announcers get national articles written about them and their homerism)? Our fan base can't go 1 day without some stupid trolling of the cubs. I really do believe that a large portion of our fan base would rather the Cubs lose than the Sox win.

Its a really exciting time to be a White Sox fan, a lot of good young talent, should be an exciting July trade deadline, even if we are sellers, Abreu is a monster, and we keep getting shadowed by Hawk making a spectacle of himself, or our fans worried more about Theo or the Wrigley Renovation.
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