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  #31  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:04 PM
Moses_Scurry Moses_Scurry is offline
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Seeing this thread subject brought me crashing down from the buzz from tonight's win. Get well soon Chris. We need you!
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  #32  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:12 PM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkjt View Post
Going 127 pitches vs Red Sox was too much. Our bullpen is going to kill our starters who try to extend.
During his last start, in the game thread, I stated that Robin is an absolute idiot for letting Sale go that long in a mid-April game. Sho-nuff here are the repercussions.
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  #33  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:19 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Thank you, Rob-in! Clap! Clap! Clap, clap, clap!

*Yes, I know it is not all Robin's fault or anything, but he sure as **** isn't helping.

Also, brilliant idea tossing Rienzo out there yesterday when you knew you'd have to start him in a few days.
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  #34  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:20 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anewman35 View Post
Oh, so you have proof that it was the last 10 or 15 pitches that hurt him?
There's no question that Robin overextended Sale there. How would it be even the slightest bit better if Robin kept him in the game to throw all of those pitches when Sale's arm was jacked up before it even got to that point?
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  #35  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:21 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Thank you, Rob-in! Clap! Clap! Clap, clap, clap!

*Yes, I know it is not all Robin's fault or anything, but he sure as **** isn't helping.

Also, brilliant idea tossing Rienzo out there yesterday when you knew you'd have to start him in a few days.
Seriously, Robin appears to be getting worse with each year. I know that last year there wasn't an awful lot he could do but he still made some very perplexing decisions (intentionally walking Getz, for example) and this year...man. I can't even attempt to understand his logic for some of these things.
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  #36  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:27 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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To say the management of the pitching staff this season has been brutal would be an understatement. Sale and Webb are two of the few guys on the staff you want to protect, and both have been handled recklessly. It's inexcusable. Hopefully, Sale makes a quick recovery and is able to pitch the rest of the season without incident. But no more 127-pitch outings on cold nights, please.
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  #37  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:32 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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If only Robin would have had some damn managerial experience before being hired, he would have realized that 126 is Sale's limit.
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  #38  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:33 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
There's no question that Robin overextended Sale there. How would it be even the slightest bit better if Robin kept him in the game to throw all of those pitches when Sale's arm was jacked up before it even got to that point?
If you say so.
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  #39  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:36 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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If you say so.
Dynamite counterpoint.
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  #40  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:42 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint View Post
Dynamite counterpoint.
It's hard to argue with "There's no question". There is a question. He's had one-or-two week issues like this each of the past two years. Clearly not every one is due to Robin pitching him 127 pitches, since he's never done that before. You're the expert, exactly how many pitches should he pitch?

Additionally, here's a quote from Hahn: “There was certainly no indication at any point before that start or during that start that he was in the least bit of jeopardy of doing any damage to himself,” Hahn said. “I don’t know the cause, but I do know we’re not going to mess around with this guy if he doesn’t feel like he’s 100 percent or experiencing any soreness.”

Now, I fully realize that even if he somehow KNEW (like you KNOW) that it was due to Robin throwing him too much, he probably wouldn't throw Robin under the bus like that. On the other hand, I think I trust Hahn (even Hahn with a possible motive to lie) more than somebody just guessing on a message board.
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  #41  
Old 04-21-2014, 11:57 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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It is absolutely mind-numbing to me that, for a decade now, people on this site can rip Dusty Baker for overusing Mark Prior and Kerry Wood, especially in cold weather, then when Robin overuses Chris Sale in cold weather, it's backtrack city.

I'm a grown man with a basic understanding of the concept of causality. I'm not going to make a dismissive wank gesture with one hand while the other digs a hole in the sand for me to bury my head in simply because it's one of our guys who screwed up.

I'm not saying that Robin's ruined Sale, that would be ridiculous. But it absolutely was the wrong decision to have Sale throw 127 pitches on a cold night, and it didn't take hindsight to realize it.
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  #42  
Old 04-22-2014, 12:03 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
That one particular performance may not have caused the problem. The difference between going 105 pitches vs 127 is not that great when you consider the stress he's putting on his body in the type of games he's pitching on a consistent basis. It's probably something that's been building up over time. Either way, it is terrible news.
This is the most sensible post I've read in this thread. And, realistically, if throwing 127 pitches, with minimal work out of the stretch is going to be a problem, and it only gets a pitcher giving up just one run through six innings, some of the blame has to go to the pitcher, who knew that to win the game he was going to have to go deep into the start after the 14-inning loss the night before.

I can't blame Ventura for bringing Sale in for the sixth. I don't know where, at what specific point in the sixth I can blame Ventura for not going to the overworked bullpen. And I'm not so sure Sale would have been better for it.

Striking out hitters can run up your pitch count. If that is going to be an issue relating to the health of your arm, you need to find a more economical way to get hitters out. In this age when pitchers pithces are being counted, I find I'm more impressed with pitchers who get outs to contact and go deeper in the game.
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  #43  
Old 04-22-2014, 12:05 AM
gobears1987 gobears1987 is offline
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I'm just glad I got to see him pitch a few weeks ago in KC.

It's probably best to take precautions and preserve him by putting him on the DL. I don't care what his stats are this year. I care what he does in a few years.
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  #44  
Old 04-22-2014, 12:22 AM
ddog528 ddog528 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Thank you, Rob-in! Clap! Clap! Clap, clap, clap!

*Yes, I know it is not all Robin's fault or anything, but he sure as **** isn't helping.

Also, brilliant idea tossing Rienzo out there yesterday when you knew you'd have to start him in a few days.
It was pretty much considered a side session. Big deal
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  #45  
Old 04-22-2014, 12:49 AM
Soxman219 Soxman219 is offline
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I'm not worried, we'll see him in two weeks. He's fine. In the meantime, I want to see how Leesman and Rienzo handle the Tigers lineup the next few days. Who's gonna be the 5th starter.
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