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  #46  
Old 12-27-2013, 08:29 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
All you'd have to do is actually watch them pitch to see they're incredibly different. Matsuzaka didn't throw a single pitch as well as Tanaka's third best offering.

Roger Clemens and Curt Shilling both threw some of the same pitches. No one would ever deign to compare the two. At least that would make sense. This comparison is more like comparing Brett Tomko to Randy Johnson. They're both American!

That article even mentioned Matsuzaka was a poor comparison. It's like the original poster didn't even read the article and simply threw it there to attack Tanaka.
I think you forget the Matsuzaka hype when he was signed. Now that Yu is a top 5 pitcher,the next pitcher now gets hyper-hype. He probably is a stronger prospect, but just reading scouting reports, the comps aren't out of line.
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  #47  
Old 12-27-2013, 08:48 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
I think you forget the Matsuzaka hype when he was signed. Now that Yu is a top 5 pitcher,the next pitcher now gets hyper-hype. He probably is a stronger prospect, but just reading scouting reports, the comps aren't out of line.
Unless you are comparing purely their hype, what does that have to do with comparing their career paths? It's insane. It has nothing to do with that in the least bit. These are two guys that baseball wise have zero in common. To say that Tanaka is the next Matsuzaka, as the original poster implied, is to ignore baseball completely. It's purely on the basis of where they come from, and is a merit-less argument.
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  #48  
Old 12-27-2013, 09:14 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
All you'd have to do is actually watch them pitch to see they're incredibly different. Matsuzaka didn't throw a single pitch as well as Tanaka's third best offering.

Roger Clemens and Curt Shilling both threw some of the same pitches. No one would ever deign to compare the two. At least that would make sense. This comparison is more like comparing Brett Tomko to Randy Johnson. They're both American!

That article even mentioned Matsuzaka was a poor comparison. It's like the original poster didn't even read the article and simply threw it there to attack Tanaka.

WRONG AGAIN. The original poster read it all. I also heard all the hype in New England of how great he would be. Here is what John Farrell had to say:

Here is a breakdown of Matsuzaka's impressive repertoire, with considerable help from Red Sox pitching coach John Farrell.

Four-seam fastball: Matsuzaka is able to locate his four-seamer to both sides of the plate, and it ranges from 92-95 mph. This is the pitch that Matsuzaka sometimes leaves up in the zone. He could get away with that in Japan, but it could lead to devastating mistakes in the power-packed American League.

Two-seam fastball: This is the pitch that Matsuzaka worked hardest on refining during Spring Training. This is because he didn't throw it all that much in Japan. Matsuzaka uses the two-seamer quite a bit on right-handers. The pitch whistles in anywhere from 90-92 mph, with tough, downward action.

"I think when you look at his fastball in general, he's got the ability to sink it," Farrell said. "He's got the ability to really carry it through the zone. And his delivery allows for some deception where he's going to get some swings and misses. Not only is the location and velocity there, but the deception adds to the overall effectiveness."

The cutter: What makes Matsuzaka's cutter most effective, according to Farrell, is its tightness. The speed is 87-89 mph.

"It's tight; there's such definition," Farrell said. "He's got the ability to go to both sides of the plate with it. And it's got power and late action. What will come out of all of this is the fact that his ability to manipulate the baseball is tremendous."

The curve: Out of all of Matsuzaka's pitches, this one is the prettiest to watch. Matsuzaka's bender, which Farrell says has an 11-to-7 break, comes in at 75-77 mph.

"He's able to drop it over for a strike, seemingly at will," Farrell said. "The 2-0 curveball has been a pitch for him that has really slowed the bats down and taken some of the aggressiveness out of the hitter. It's a command pitch for him. It's not too big to where it's going to be difficult for him to throw inside a Major League strike zone. Again, it's obviously a very usable pitch for him."

Slider: This nasty pitch is one that Matsuzaka will use quite a bit to put away left-handed hitters. It is a mid-80s pitch for Matsuzaka, ranging anywhere from 83-87 mph.
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  #49  
Old 12-27-2013, 10:29 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
These are two guys that baseball wise have zero in common.
Except for their scouting reports.
And I don't mean the revisionist reports. The ones that were written at or near the time of Matzusaka's signing.
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  #50  
Old 12-27-2013, 11:15 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Some day. Just you watch.
Seriously, just stop. Look up "hyperbole" and then look at yourself.
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  #51  
Old 12-27-2013, 11:19 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Tanaka might be an ace, or he might be a bust. It's a smart investment for some teams. For the Sox, committing $120M to a prospect is not a good investment. I would err on the side of caution.
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  #52  
Old 12-27-2013, 11:23 PM
cards press box cards press box is offline
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It was their World Series...
Japanese world series or not, 160 pitches in one game is a lot in this day and age. Could you imagine St. Louis letting Michael Wacha throw 160 pitches in any post-season game?
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  #53  
Old 12-28-2013, 01:46 AM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
Tanaka might be an ace, or he might be a bust. It's a smart investment for some teams. For the Sox, committing $120M to a prospect is not a good investment. I would err on the side of caution.
He's two years younger than Abreu. I wouldn't mind it, but I don't see it happening, either.
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  #54  
Old 12-28-2013, 04:27 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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He's two years younger than Abreu. I wouldn't mind it, but I don't see it happening, either.
He's also a pitcher that costs twice as much.
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  #55  
Old 12-28-2013, 08:17 AM
winstonage winstonage is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
He's also a pitcher that costs twice as much.
From what I have heard he is better than Matuzaka, but not as good as Darvish. His age would fit in with the rebuild. Sale, Tanaka, Quintana, heading up the rotation would allow them to continuing to concentrate on building the lineup. He will get a lot of money for a number 2, but the cost of pitching keeps going up. Garza, Jimenez, and Santana are not number 2's on a good team, and they could be looking at $85mil each. Not saying the Sox should consider these guys, just making the comparison. $120mil is less than they paid Dunn, Rios and Peavy, this would be obviously a better spend.
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  #56  
Old 12-28-2013, 09:47 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by winstonage View Post
. $120mil is less than they paid Dunn, Rios and Peavy, this would be obviously a better spend.
Do you mean combined?
I think the most the Sox were on the hook individually for was maybe Rios at around $60 mill. at one point.
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  #57  
Old 12-28-2013, 10:23 AM
winstonage winstonage is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Do you mean combined?
I think the most the Sox were on the hook individually for was maybe Rios at around $60 mill. at one point.
Combined, and now that I think about it, just Dunn and Rios cost them $120mil
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  #58  
Old 12-28-2013, 11:44 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Combined, and now that I think about it, just Dunn and Rios cost them $120mil
Not even close.
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  #59  
Old 12-28-2013, 12:05 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Not even close.
At the time that they signed Dunn for $56 Million, they still owed Rios $63 Million. So yes, pretty damn close, actually.
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  #60  
Old 12-28-2013, 01:38 PM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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Save the $20 million posting fee plus the likely $100 million contract the Dodgers or Yankees will give him and use that to get a good quality catcher and decent starting pitcher.
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