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  #46  
Old 12-14-2013, 01:17 PM
balke balke is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
The dude hits 30 homers....there is value in that for DH. You can't bat him 3rd (ahem, Robin).....
He's just not worth the money we're paying him.
But we certainly could win with him at DH.

Dunn straight up quit last season. He started the season as the worst player in baseball, then proceeded to end it that way. June and July saved his stats.

To me his failure pattern reflects a poor work ethic and bad disposition. I personally don't care if he has 1.000+ OPS this season. He has to go.
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  #47  
Old 12-14-2013, 01:48 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
Dunn/White Sox- ranked 12th of 15 teams for DH- so there are exactly 3 teams in MLB where Dunn would be of value-

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2013-...gnated-hitter/

To minimize the damage while we pray for someone to take him off our hands- he should be batting 5th/6th- and only starting vs. RHPs

Dunn will be out off baseball after 2014- he's a DH only at this stage- and in the bottom 25% of that position- while aging and declining-

Best scenario for the WSox is he looks good in spring training, gets off to a fast start and an AL contender gets hit with injuries where they are desperate enough to take on a decent part of Dunn's salary for a few months of his DH production.
Sometimes, people don't do their homework, and the data they use to prove a point actually proves them wrong....

Adam Dunn was in the top 6 of all those guys for WAR at DH.....
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  #48  
Old 12-14-2013, 03:05 PM
Soxman219 Soxman219 is offline
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As it should be, they let a 1/3 of the American League in the playoffs now, and once your in the playoffs, pretty much anything can happen. Anyone who suggests treating an upcoming season as anything other than an opportunity to win now should be dragged out in 35th Street and shot for all of our amusement.
Agreed.
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  #49  
Old 12-14-2013, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Sometimes, people don't do their homework, and the data they use to prove a point actually proves them wrong....

Adam Dunn was in the top 6 of all those guys for WAR at DH.....
Stats are great to look at, but in reality is there a team in baseball that would take Dunn away from the Sox now without the requirement that the Sox eat about 75% of that contract?

After watching Dunn over the course of the last three years, is there anything that illustrates he has the motivation or work ethic to want to come back and succeed in 2015? Even if he comes back, who would want to touch him?
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  #50  
Old 12-14-2013, 07:16 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Stats are great to look at, but in reality is there a team in baseball that would take Dunn away from the Sox now without the requirement that the Sox eat about 75% of that contract?

After watching Dunn over the course of the last three years, is there anything that illustrates he has the motivation or work ethic to want to come back and succeed in 2015? Even if he comes back, who would want to touch him?
If the White Sox were to release Dunn, I have no doubt he would be picked up by another team because the White Sox would be picking close to all of his salary. If this were his free-agent offseason, I doubt he would be able to find a major league deal as sweet as the one the White Sox gave Konerko for 2014. What I am hoping is that 2014 being the last year of Dunn's contract, Dunn will be motivated to have a much better offensive season to impress as he prepares to look for a new employer.

As things are now, teams would expect from Dunn what they have expected out of Jason Giambi. Dunn doesn't have the steroids-history baggage, and he's quite a bit younger, but I can't imagine any team is looking at Dunn as being an acceptable full-time DH, let alone first baseman or outfielder. Giambi's contract last year was for less than $1 million. You can make a statistical argument that Dunn has been an acceptable offensive player. But if he had been for the last three years, you wouldn't have to make a statistical argument for fans who have seen differently.
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  #51  
Old 12-14-2013, 07:48 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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If the White Sox were to release Dunn, I have no doubt he would be picked up by another team because the White Sox would be picking close to all of his salary. If this were his free-agent offseason, I doubt he would be able to find a major league deal as sweet as the one the White Sox gave Konerko for 2014. What I am hoping is that 2014 being the last year of Dunn's contract, Dunn will be motivated to have a much better offensive season to impress as he prepares to look for a new employer.

As things are now, teams would expect from Dunn what they have expected out of Jason Giambi. Dunn doesn't have the steroids-history baggage, and he's quite a bit younger, but I can't imagine any team is looking at Dunn as being an acceptable full-time DH, let alone first baseman or outfielder. Giambi's contract last year was for less than $1 million. You can make a statistical argument that Dunn has been an acceptable offensive player. But if he had been for the last three years, you wouldn't have to make a statistical argument for fans who have seen differently.
Dunn has some value, but nobody wants to get stuck holding the bag.

The longer he's with the Sox this season, the more likely some team desperate for a power bat will take a shot on him for his remaining salary.

The worst thing that could happen is Dunn getting hurt before we can move him.

I'd love to see Jerry make a magnanimous gesture to the fans and dump him and eat his last year's salary, preferably at SoxFest, but that's not Jerry's style, even if Dunn is the most disliked Sox player I can remember in my 40+ years of following the team.
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  #52  
Old 12-14-2013, 11:06 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
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You're misinterpreting that article.
How so?
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  #53  
Old 12-14-2013, 11:15 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Count me in the "Sox should tank the 2014 season" camp. Yes, tear-downs don't work 100% of the time, but who exactly is out there as an FA that will make us a contender? No point in signing a bunch of wash-ups or mediocrities to FA contracts if all they'll do is slightly improve our records and tank our draft position.

Ultimately draft position is meaningless if you can't identify and develop talent consistently, which the Sox have not done well in over a decade. But it's a start.

Only worthwhile FA signings would be guys we're sure we could trade at the deadline. Kenny Lofton type deals.
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  #54  
Old 12-15-2013, 09:49 AM
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Count me in the "Sox should tank the 2014 season" camp. Yes, tear-downs don't work 100% of the time, but who exactly is out there as an FA that will make us a contender? No point in signing a bunch of wash-ups or mediocrities to FA contracts if all they'll do is slightly improve our records and tank our draft position.

Ultimately draft position is meaningless if you can't identify and develop talent consistently, which the Sox have not done well in over a decade. But it's a start.

Only worthwhile FA signings would be guys we're sure we could trade at the deadline. Kenny Lofton type deals.
That's the non-guaranteed Cubs philosophy right now that has them spinning their wheels after three years. Hahn's three acquisitions over the past five months (Garcia, Abreau and Eaton) have the Sox, believe it or not, closer now to winning a championship than the Cubs. Hahn is going for young, but major league ready, talent.
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  #55  
Old 12-15-2013, 10:04 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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That's the non-guaranteed Cubs philosophy right now that has them spinning their wheels after three years. Hahn's three acquisitions over the past five months (Garcia, Abreau and Eaton) have the Sox, believe it or not, closer now to winning a championship than the Cubs. Hahn is going for young, but major league ready, talent.
And Hahn's taking quality over quantity. The only throwaway trade he made was taking a rule 5 for Thornton. Even the Rios trade got us our super sub.**
And most refreshing, no declining veterans. And we haven't traded our prospects...and we shouldn't, as we don't have near enough and need to stockpile.
**And if the Sox see any hitting potential at all, they could send him to Charlotte, work on it for a year, and then come back in 2015 and see if he can take over for Alexei.
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  #56  
Old 12-15-2013, 01:52 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Dunn has some value, but nobody wants to get stuck holding the bag.

The longer he's with the Sox this season, the more likely some team desperate for a power bat will take a shot on him for his remaining salary.

The worst thing that could happen is Dunn getting hurt before we can move him.

I'd love to see Jerry make a magnanimous gesture to the fans and dump him and eat his last year's salary, preferably at SoxFest, but that's not Jerry's style, even if Dunn is the most disliked Sox player I can remember in my 40+ years of following the team.
I've heard baseball people say there is no such thing as a bad one-year contract. If that's true, a partial year contract is better still. I don't think there are any American or National League teams that would want Dunn as an everyday player. If you are looking at moving Dunn mid-season, you are limited to contenders. He probably becomes more attractive in August than he is before the deadline, and perhaps more attractive still after the rosters expand. There is a much better chance that someone would pick up Dunn on waivers in 2014 if the team taking him is only looking at paying him for a month or six weeks.
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  #57  
Old 12-15-2013, 03:54 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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How so?
It's talking about overall DH production. Konerko killed us as a DH, not Dunn. Dunn was the 6th most productive DH last year.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #58  
Old 12-15-2013, 03:57 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
I've heard baseball people say there is no such thing as a bad one-year contract. If that's true, a partial year contract is better still. I don't think there are any American or National League teams that would want Dunn as an everyday player. If you are looking at moving Dunn mid-season, you are limited to contenders. He probably becomes more attractive in August than he is before the deadline, and perhaps more attractive still after the rosters expand. There is a much better chance that someone would pick up Dunn on waivers in 2014 if the team taking him is only looking at paying him for a month or six weeks.
You just said you don't think any team wants Dunn and then said you can only trade him to a contender. LOL.
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  #59  
Old 12-15-2013, 05:22 PM
balke balke is offline
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It's talking about overall DH production. Konerko killed us as a DH, not Dunn. Dunn was the 6th most productive DH last year.
Dunn's DH stats last year were:
.184 .269 .386 .655

He did his damage while playing 1B.
.262 .376 .512 .888

(He played about 70 games in both roles).

Ideally Dunn doesn't play the field - yet his DH stats lifetime are putrid.
.192 .310 .401 .711
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  #60  
Old 12-15-2013, 05:45 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by balke View Post
Dunn's DH stats last year were:
.184 .269 .386 .655


He did his damage while playing 1B.
.262 .376 .512 .888

(He played about 70 games in both roles).

Ideally Dunn doesn't play the field - yet his DH stats lifetime are putrid.
.192 .310 .401 .711
How does that translate to 6th best? Were the other DH's that bad? Is he that high because of the HRs? I'm reminded of the quote sometimes attributed to Mark Twain.
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