Let's argue about Jose Quintana again!!!

[Noneck]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Pretty much every team has questions at the back end of their rotation

Im saying the 3,4 and 5. And Sox 2 is really a 4.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by Noneck

Im saying the 3,4 and 5. And Sox 2 is really a 4.

Not this **** again.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by Noneck

Im saying the 3,4 and 5. And Sox 2 is really a 4.

This is a tired argument made by people who can't admit that the Sox might be better at player development than they think. Quintana was the #6 SP in the ENTIRE AMERICAN LEAGUE last season. Yes, that is probably a bit over his head, but his talent after 400 innings in the Majors is undeniable. To call him at #4 pitcher is laughably, almost trollishly, pessimistic. Please tell me what teams are out there who wouldn't find a spot at the top of their rotation for a guy with 33 starts, 200 IP, and a 3.50 ERA. It's not a very long list.

If Quintana was on any other team in the league, people would be COVETING him. We'd be desperate to acquire a 24-year-old pitcher with a 118 ERA+ in his first two seasons in the Majors. But since he's on the Sox, eh, maybe he's a back-end of the rotation kind of guy. :eyeroll:

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by doublem23

You're telling me the #6 pitcher in the American League last year is a #4 starter? Might want to re-check that math.

Didn't you know there are 90-120 better starting pitchers than Quintana?

[Noneck]

Originally Posted by doublem23

This is a tired argument made by people who can't admit that the Sox might be better at player development than they think. Quintana was the #6 SP in the ENTIRE AMERICAN LEAGUE last season. Yes, that is probably a bit over his head, but his talent after 400 innings in the Majors is undeniable. To call him at #4 pitcher is laughably, almost trollishly, pessimistic. Please tell me what teams are out there who wouldn't find a spot at the top of their rotation for a guy with 33 starts, 200 IP, and a 3.50 ERA. It's not a very long list.

If Quintana was on any other team in the league, people would be COVETING him. We'd be desperate to acquire a 24-year-old pitcher with a 118 ERA+ in his first two seasons in the Majors. But since he's on the Sox, eh, maybe he's a back-end of the rotation kind of guy. :eyeroll:

My point wasnt Quintana, maybe he is a 3. My point was and is that its a major "if" for this team to be able to compete with their 3,4 and 5.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by doublem23

This is a tired argument made by people who can't admit that the Sox might be better at player development than they think. Quintana was the #6 SP in the ENTIRE AMERICAN LEAGUE last season. Yes, that is probably a bit over his head, but his talent after 400 innings in the Majors is undeniable. To call him at #4 pitcher is laughably, almost trollishly, pessimistic. Please tell me what teams are out there who wouldn't find a spot at the top of their rotation for a guy with 33 starts, 200 IP, and a 3.50 ERA. It's not a very long list.

Judging ability off of production without care for anything else is undeniably optimistic. Almost trollish. Production does not equal talent. Jim Parque produced. He had very little talent.

Quintana's a 3-4 who's production has exceeded that. It may continue for many years, but it probably won't unless he makes serious strides.

[asindc]

Originally Posted by blandman

Judging ability off of production without care for anything else is undeniably optimistic. Almost trollish. Production does not equal talent. Jim Parque produced. He had very little talent.

Quintana's a 3-4 who's production has exceeded that. It may continue for many years, but it probably won't unless he makes serious strides.

Wrong. He is a 2-3 until he proves he is not. What is, is. What will be, we'll see.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by asindc

Wrong. He is a 2-3 until he proves he is not. What is, is. What will be, we'll see.

Wrong, he's a 3-4 until he proves he can throw a pitch worthy of a higher status.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by blandman

Judging ability off of production without care for anything else is undeniably optimistic. Almost trollish. Production does not equal talent. Jim Parque produced. He had very little talent.

Quintana's a 3-4 who's production has exceeded that. It may continue for many years, but it probably won't unless he makes serious strides.

I just can't get my head around the ridiculousness of your logic. Production doesn't matter. What does that even mean?

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by blandman

Judging ability off of production without care for anything else is undeniably optimistic. Almost trollish. Production does not equal talent. Jim Parque produced. He had very little talent.

Quintana's a 3-4 who's production has exceeded that. It may continue for many years, but it probably won't unless he makes serious strides.

That's a bunch of horse****, this is a game based on production. Nobody gets a medal for "Most Perceived Talent." Otherwise Corey Patterson, Brian Anderson, and a slew of other big time busts would be heading towards Cooperstown.

Keeping digging that hole.

[asindc]

Originally Posted by blandman

Wrong, he's a 3-4 until he proves he can throw a pitch worthy of a higher status.

Wrong, as long as he gets batters out throwing what he is throwing, it doesn't matter what the "status" of his pitches are. Theory is theory. Results are results.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by blandman

Wrong, he's a 3-4 until he proves he can throw a pitch worthy of a higher status.

You've been provided with evidence to the contrary over and over for the last month. At this point, you're covering your ears and screaming to avoid reality.

[TaylorStSox]

According to Munch's logic, Tom Glavine would be Dylan Axelrod. In reality, he'll be joining Frank in Cooperstown because of, you know, actual production.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by doublem23

That's a bunch of horse****, this is a game based on production. Nobody gets a medal for "Most Perceived Talent." Otherwise Corey Patterson, Brian Anderson, and a slew of other big time busts would be heading towards Cooperstown.

Keeping digging that hole.

Originally Posted by asindc

Wrong, as long as he gets batters out throwing what he is throwing, it doesn't matter what the "status" of his pitches are. Theory is theory. Results are results.

As much as you want to point to "look at this small sample size" while ignoring ability, this story happens over and over again. Yeah, high end talent doesn't always translate. But low end talent production also almost never continues. Plenty of guys are good their first few years and fall off. It's not even uncommon. Lack of talent and increased exposure gets to everyone, eventually.

[doublem23]

Thread split in two so people who don't want to read this **** again don't have to. Have fun!