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  #211  
Old 12-11-2013, 01:35 PM
balke balke is offline
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Danks did finally show something last sept. If he was the defensive wizard he was suppose to be, it may not be a bad move. Im up for it if the Sox can get young pitching for de aza and viciedo. Its a lost year no matter what people think now and to me de aza or viciedo dont fit in the future.

L. Garcia can play CF as well. Danks right now is a 4th OFer type. He to me deserves a little more of a look based on how he finished last season. He hasn't shown much of anything overall though.

Viciedo has shown power and is young. If we are taking a look to assess the future next season - he's definitely a player to keep and watch.

I'd love to see De Aza go to a good team and turn back into the player he was in 2012. Even if he did well next year on the Sox, will it add up to anything? Will the Sox win the World Series because of it?
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  #212  
Old 12-11-2013, 01:35 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Please. No one pays you for your opinion. Whatever your opinion of the likes of Keith Law, it's still more valuable than yours.
And the crazy guy in front of the Old Navy on State Street gets paid more than I for yelling at random people, but I wouldn't quote his words, either.
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  #213  
Old 12-11-2013, 01:37 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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And the crazy guy in front of the Old Navy on State Street gets paid more than I for yelling at random people, but I wouldn't quote his words, either.
He sure is entertaining, though.
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  #214  
Old 12-11-2013, 01:52 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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IMO, people complaining about this trade simply know little to nothing about Eaton and like Santiago because they have seen many of his games. Of course, that is common among fans of any team who spend the majority or all their sports time really only following the players on their favorite team(s).

Eaton is far more prized than Santiago. Does that guarantee he'll be the next coming of Barry Bonds or something? Of course not. But the poster who said that the Sox benefit from picking up middling pitching prospects, improving them, and flipping them for value was right. I think this was a good deal of the reasoning for those arguing Quintana should be moved, too.

But hey, at least I didn't have to read about how either of them is "overpaid" in this thread.

Adam Eaton was one hell of a pickup for Hector Santiago. As you all know, I criticize the Sox as much as anyone here, but not this time.
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  #215  
Old 12-11-2013, 02:06 PM
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IMO, people complaining about this trade simply know little to nothing about Eaton and like Santiago because they have seen many of his games. Of course, that is common among fans of any team who spend the majority or all their sports time really only following the players on their favorite team(s).

Eaton is far more prized than Santiago. Does that guarantee he'll be the next coming of Barry Bonds or something? Of course not. But the poster who said that the Sox benefit from picking up middling pitching prospects, improving them, and flipping them for value was right. I think this was a good deal of the reasoning for those arguing Quintana should be moved, too.

But hey, at least I didn't have to read about how either of them is "overpaid" in this thread.

Adam Eaton was one hell of a pickup for Hector Santiago. As you all know, I criticize the Sox as much as anyone here, but not this time.
Yep. The argument I don't get is thinking the Sox would get a better return for Santiago. He's a middle to back end rotation pitcher with one full season under his belt, and was swapped for a top prospect who could be the CFer for the Sox and a core piece for the foreseeable future. Add in he's cost controlled and fills a need, I don't see the issue here.
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  #216  
Old 12-11-2013, 03:04 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Yep. The argument I don't get is thinking the Sox would get a better return for Santiago. He's a middle to back end rotation pitcher with one full season under his belt, and was swapped for a top prospect who could be the CFer for the Sox and a core piece for the foreseeable future. Add in he's cost controlled and fills a need, I don't see the issue here.
The problem is some people, incorrectly, view Santiago as a top rotation pitcher.
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  #217  
Old 12-11-2013, 03:18 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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The problem is some people, incorrectly, view Santiago as a top rotation pitcher.
Setting up a straw-man here? I don't think I've seen anyone call Santiago a "top of the rotation" pitcher. I've seen a lot of people describe him as a middle of the rotation guy at best, but that's about it.
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  #218  
Old 12-11-2013, 03:23 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Setting up a straw-man here? I don't think I've seen anyone call Santiago a "top of the rotation" pitcher. I've seen a lot of people describe him as a middle of the rotation guy at best, but that's about it.
Even that's a pretty indefensible position, given his lack of command and repertoire. And I like the guy!
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  #219  
Old 12-11-2013, 03:27 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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L. Garcia can play CF as well. Danks right now is a 4th OFer type. He to me deserves a little more of a look based on how he finished last season. He hasn't shown much of anything overall though.

Viciedo has shown power and is young. If we are taking a look to assess the future next season - he's definitely a player to keep and watch.

I'd love to see De Aza go to a good team and turn back into the player he was in 2012. Even if he did well next year on the Sox, will it add up to anything? Will the Sox win the World Series because of it?
I didnt know about L. Garcia being able to play cf. Regarding Viciedo, I keep thinking of him as an ofer (which I hate) but keep forgetting the Sox need for a DH after this year.
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  #220  
Old 12-11-2013, 03:36 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by spawn View Post
Yep. The argument I don't get is thinking the Sox would get a better return for Santiago. He's a middle to back end rotation pitcher with one full season under his belt, and was swapped for a top prospect who could be the CFer for the Sox and a core piece for the foreseeable future. Add in he's cost controlled and fills a need, I don't see the issue here.
I liked Santiago from the standpoint of trade value. I believed he had shown versatility both in starter and relief, in addition to being left handed. He was also easy on the payroll. I thought he was the sort of pitcher that didn't seem to be a big part of White Sox plans and had some potential to be blossom. Because he had shown he can pitch effectively in relief, although he lost his closer's job early in 2012, he could help a team even if he didn't blossom as a starter, with some teams challenged in finding lefty relievers.

I also like Easton. I think this is the sort of player I was hoping they could get for Santiago. It's just a matter of Eaton reaching expectations.

Some may be overestimating Santiago's worth, maybe because he didn't offend them so much in the 2013 season. Others may have been looking for getting players in trade that they have actually heard of or who have more impressive major league numbers while not being on their prospect radar. Last week, I would have thought Eaton would have had more trade value than Santiago, but it wasn't really a one-for-one even-up trade.

I find it interesting that neither Avisail Garcia nor Adam Eaton came to the White Sox in a straight deals with their former teams. The White Sox apparently got what they wanted even though the teams trading the players didn't want what the White Sox were offering. It's as if the Sox have a plan and are working creatively to pull it off.
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  #221  
Old 12-11-2013, 04:38 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Even that's a pretty indefensible position, given his lack of command and repertoire. And I like the guy!
Only if you stop all evaluation after 2/3 of a season as a starter, which is ridiculous to do.
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  #222  
Old 12-11-2013, 04:38 PM
sunofgold sunofgold is offline
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Default Could be a move for 2015

2015, we will have an opening at DH. Maybe Viciedo moves into that spot or at least part of the time is DH. We don't necessarily have to trade Viciedo or De Aza. Could mean the end of the Jordan Dunks era. JR said Jordan was untradeable but I have this feeling that he just wasn't referring to John's brother. Sorry Mr. and Mrs. Danks.
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  #223  
Old 12-11-2013, 04:46 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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2015, we will have an opening at DH. Maybe Viciedo moves into that spot or at least part of the time is DH. We don't necessarily have to trade Viciedo or De Aza.

I dont think the Sox will have a bench outfielder on this type of team that will making at least 4 times of what 2 of the starting outfielders will be making. Either de aza or viciedo will be dealt.
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  #224  
Old 12-11-2013, 05:06 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Only if you stop all evaluation after 2/3 of a season as a starter, which is ridiculous to do.
No, judging it on something other than the pitches he throws would be ridiculous. Calling a guy like him anything but a 5 based on 2/3 of a season versus everything before it would be ridiculous. The guy has 5 stuff with the ability to be better if BOTH his command improves drastically and he gets a plus pitch (his first). Right now he relies on the screwball and lack of exposure. Exposure caught up to him later in the year. We traded high. That's a good thing. The chances he improves or even continues on at the level of production he had at the beginning of last year are not that good.
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  #225  
Old 12-11-2013, 05:15 PM
Carolina Kenny Carolina Kenny is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
I liked Santiago from the standpoint of trade value. I believed he had shown versatility both in starter and relief, in addition to being left handed. He was also easy on the payroll. I thought he was the sort of pitcher that didn't seem to be a big part of White Sox plans and had some potential to be blossom. Because he had shown he can pitch effectively in relief, although he lost his closer's job early in 2012, he could help a team even if he didn't blossom as a starter, with some teams challenged in finding lefty relievers.

I also like Easton. I think this is the sort of player I was hoping they could get for Santiago. It's just a matter of Eaton reaching expectations.

Some may be overestimating Santiago's worth, maybe because he didn't offend them so much in the 2013 season. Others may have been looking for getting players in trade that they have actually heard of or who have more impressive major league numbers while not being on their prospect radar. Last week, I would have thought Eaton would have had more trade value than Santiago, but it wasn't really a one-for-one even-up trade.

I find it interesting that neither Avisail Garcia nor Adam Eaton came to the White Sox in a straight deals with their former teams. The White Sox apparently got what they wanted even though the teams trading the players didn't want what the White Sox were offering. It's as if the Sox have a plan and are working creatively to pull it off.
Very interesting take on these transactions. Thank you for your insight.
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