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  #76  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:36 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
You aren't even addressing my point. You are establishing a defense for an attack on your belief system which was never made. I don't recall singling you as some sort of self-important moron who needs to get over himself. I also know that an on-base percentage that isn't founded in a solid batting average is meaningless, especially among minor leaguers because major league pitchers are more likely to challenge them with strikes.
And that's absolutely not ****ing true, high OBP regardless of the BA that's attached with it, is a positive sign for a developing hitter because it displays solid command and understanding of the strike zone. Yeah, you're right, guys will be challenged by better pitchers at higher levels, which is why you want guys who have the patience and eye to lay off bad **** at the lower levels. You actually think a guy who can't help himself from swinging at A-ball level junk is going to have any kind of success in the Majors? That's a larf.
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  #77  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:37 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
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Originally Posted by hoosiersoxfan View Post
How many years until we can realistically expect Courtney Hawkins to make it to the majors and is he still projected a CF? He's only 20 years old now but if he can develop and be called up in a few years there could be a very nice young future outfield with Hawkins, Eaton, and Garcia.

Whoa, it's tough to say he's 20 yes, he's played in 162 minor league games

His line in 162 A ball games .217/.277/.420 40 walks to 216Ks

Below average defender, and a near wash on the bases.....

He does have 27 professional HRs so far.......I'm not buying him so far, He was a KW draft pick.......Another poor OF pick...
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  #78  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:39 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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I'm okay with this as long as the Sox aren't sending prospect to Arizona.
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  #79  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:40 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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He does have 27 professional HRs so far.......I'm not buying him so far, He was a KW draft pick.......Another poor OF pick...
Hawkins was, and still is, a highly regarded prospect. It's not that the pick was suspect, just that the Sox have a pretty terrible reputation for rushing players. Hawkins was overmatched all year long but they never flinched in their assignment and let him play out a terrible season. Whether or not this will be a valuable experience in his long-term development remains to be seen.
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  #80  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:45 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Hawkins was, and still is, a highly regarded prospect. It's not that the pick was suspect, just that the Sox have a pretty terrible reputation for rushing players. Hawkins was overmatched all year long but they never flinched in their assignment and let him play out a terrible season. Whether or not this will be a valuable experience in his long-term development remains to be seen.
I'd still consider Hawkins a prospect, but it should be noted that some publications have flat out said he's no longer a prospect. There is disparity on that opinion, but a large portion are adamant about that.
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  #81  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:45 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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I've read complaints here about .300 hitters who don't walk enough and praise for players who have dismal batting averages and similar on-base percentages to the hitters who don't walk much. I would rather have a hitter with a .320 batting average and a .340 on-base percentage than a hitter with a .240 batting average and a .360 on-base percentage.
If you're a doink hitter, I'd prefer the .240 with .360 OBP. But I don't know how doink hitters could achieve that.
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  #82  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:46 PM
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I'd still consider Hawkins a prospect, but it should be noted that some publications have flat out said he's no longer a prospect. There is disparity on that opinion, but a large portion are adamant about that.
Like which ones?
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  #83  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:50 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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I would rather have a hitter with a .320 batting average and a .340 on-base percentage than a hitter with a .240 batting average and a .360 on-base percentage. I think that's a no-brainer.
Is this slugging neutral? Because if so that's an absolutely asinine argument. Getting on base is getting on base, whether via walk or single. Over the course of 500 plate appearances, that's ten fewer outs. You'd just give away ten outs because you don't like that someone walked instead of got a single?
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  #84  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:52 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Is this slugging neutral? Because if so that's an absolutely asinine argument. Getting on base is getting on base, whether via walk or single. Over the course of 500 plate appearances, that's ten fewer outs. You'd just give away ten outs because you don't like that someone walked instead of got a single?
Not that simple, either. A single can move a runner to 3rd, or drive a runner in from second. Not sure if that's worth 10 outs a year or not.
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  #85  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:54 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Like which ones?
I believe it was B.A. that said in their write up after the season that he was no longer on the prospect radar. B/R has a similar write up.
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  #86  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:54 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSoxNation View Post
Whoa, it's tough to say he's 20 yes, he's played in 162 minor league games

His line in 162 A ball games .217/.277/.420 40 walks to 216Ks

Below average defender, and a near wash on the bases.....

He does have 27 professional HRs so far.......I'm not buying him so far, He was a KW draft pick.......Another poor OF pick...
Wow! Hawkins was a 19 year old playing in Advanced A ball and you're giving up? Also, he is not a "below average defender" nor a "near wash on the bases". Where are you getting this from?
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  #87  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:54 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Not that simple, either. A single can move a runner to 3rd, or drive a runner in from second. Not sure if that's worth 10 outs a year or not.
A ground ball can also lead to a double play. Guys who walk do that significantly less.
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  #88  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:55 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
And that's absolutely not ****ing true, high OBP regardless of the BA that's attached with it, is a positive sign for a developing hitter because it displays solid command and understanding of the strike zone. Yeah, you're right, guys will be challenged by better pitchers at higher levels, which is why you want guys who have the patience and eye to lay off bad **** at the lower levels. You actually think a guy who can't help himself from swinging at A-ball level junk is going to have any kind of success in the Majors? That's a larf.
He's just carrying the conversation over from the PK thread.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #89  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:56 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
Wow! Hawkins was a 19 year old playing in Advanced A ball and you're giving up? Also, he is not a "below average defender" nor a "near wash on the bases". Where are you getting this from?
It's hard to look at exactly how over-matched he was and not be pessimistic. It's not like he was decent. He was about as bad as you could be.
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  #90  
Old 12-10-2013, 04:57 PM
whitesoxfan1986 whitesoxfan1986 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Is this slugging neutral? Because if so that's an absolutely asinine argument. Getting on base is getting on base, whether via walk or single. Over the course of 500 plate appearances, that's ten fewer outs. You'd just give away ten outs because you don't like that someone walked instead of got a single?
I think his argument is that you can't score via walk unless the bases are loaded, and though the guy with the .340 OBP makes ten more outs, he gives the team a much greater chance of scoring with the .080 increase in BA. Of course, this all depends, as you have said on said player's slugging %. However all else equal I see his point. You don't score runner on 2nd or 3rd by talking a walk, but you do by hitting a single.
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