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  #196  
Old 12-07-2013, 02:29 PM
TDog TDog is online now
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
The Sox won the World Series with Frank Thomas. He has the ring to prove it. ...

So does Shingo. The White Sox went on to win the World Series without Shingo Takatsu, who saved the opening day 1-0 win but pitched his last White Sox game on July 16. Frank Thomas' last-ever White Sox game was on July 20, 2005. They won the World Series without Thomas who had reached base just six times in his last 30 White Sox plate appearances.

The fact that so many here were so excited about Dunn signing a financial-black-hole contract when some of us could see he would be an offensive black hole makes it easy for me to dismiss the senseless anger over what isn't a bad and could be a very good baseball signing.
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  #197  
Old 12-07-2013, 02:56 PM
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That's the thing, though...Gillaspie is probably best suited to a utility role, and there's really no reason to trade him. Who would you rather have on the bench at this point, Gillaspie or Konerko? Heck, if you give Semien the starting job at 2b you could platoon Beckham and Gillaspie, and who do we have to step in for Ramirez. Makes no sense to trade any of those guys just to keep Konerko on the roster.
How so? He plays the corner infield spots. For a utility infielder, you'd prefer somebody who can play up the middle. L. Garcia might be that guy, although he's going to have to hit a little better to make the team.

My sense is the organization wants to give Gillaspie another year to see if he grabs the starting 3B job. I don't know that I necessarily agree with that, but I just think that's the direction they are going. And it might be the best choice among limited options.

Earlier in this thread, I think people misread what the bench actually is right now. It's Konerko, Keppinger, JorDanks and Flowers/Phegley. If there is somebody who is blocking a younger player, it's Keppinger. Maybe the Sox can get him outta here to make room for L. Garcia, who has more speed and versatility.

As for Semien, I'm not sure what his position is going to be over the long haul, but I don't think it is 3B. He never played any 3B at all until last year, and predominantly, he's been a SS in his career. Even though I'm not a big Gillaspie fan, I'm not in love with the idea of putting Semien at 3B from Day 1 in the major leagues this year. Just not a real big fan of putting a kid at essentially a new defensive position while he's trying to learn how to hit in the majors. You can put him at SS or 2B, and he'd probably be comfortable, but if they want him to be the 3B, they should start him in Charlotte to get him some more work at that position.

I know there is an appetite here to see younger players on the big club, but they have to handle these guys properly. Their record is probably going to be below .500 again in 2014 anyway, so the highest priority is to do the right things in terms of developing guys they perceive as being part of the future.
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  #198  
Old 12-07-2013, 03:59 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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How so? He plays the corner infield spots. For a utility infielder, you'd prefer somebody who can play up the middle. L. Garcia might be that guy, although he's going to have to hit a little better to make the team.

My sense is the organization wants to give Gillaspie another year to see if he grabs the starting 3B job. I don't know that I necessarily agree with that, but I just think that's the direction they are going. And it might be the best choice among limited options.

Earlier in this thread, I think people misread what the bench actually is right now. It's Konerko, Keppinger, JorDanks and Flowers/Phegley. If there is somebody who is blocking a younger player, it's Keppinger. Maybe the Sox can get him outta here to make room for L. Garcia, who has more speed and versatility.

As for Semien, I'm not sure what his position is going to be over the long haul, but I don't think it is 3B. He never played any 3B at all until last year, and predominantly, he's been a SS in his career. Even though I'm not a big Gillaspie fan, I'm not in love with the idea of putting Semien at 3B from Day 1 in the major leagues this year. Just not a real big fan of putting a kid at essentially a new defensive position while he's trying to learn how to hit in the majors. You can put him at SS or 2B, and he'd probably be comfortable, but if they want him to be the 3B, they should start him in Charlotte to get him some more work at that position.

I know there is an appetite here to see younger players on the big club, but they have to handle these guys properly. Their record is probably going to be below .500 again in 2014 anyway, so the highest priority is to do the right things in terms of developing guys they perceive as being part of the future.
I dont know if the Sox will trade Keppinger but hes on the team he will be playing somewhere, not a bench player. This type of Sox team wont be carrying a 4M a year bench player.
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  #199  
Old 12-07-2013, 04:29 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post

My sense is the organization wants to give Gillaspie another year to see if he grabs the starting 3B job. I don't know that I necessarily agree with that, but I just think that's the direction they are going. And it might be the best choice among limited options.
I don't disagree with it really because we have a greater needs at, CF and C.
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  #200  
Old 12-07-2013, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
So does Shingo. The White Sox went on to win the World Series without Shingo Takatsu, who saved the opening day 1-0 win but pitched his last White Sox game on July 16. Frank Thomas' last-ever White Sox game was on July 20, 2005. They won the World Series without Thomas who had reached base just six times in his last 30 White Sox plate appearances.

The fact that so many here were so excited about Dunn signing a financial-black-hole contract when some of us could see he would be an offensive black hole makes it easy for me to dismiss the senseless anger over what isn't a bad and could be a very good baseball signing.
Yeah but Frank hit like 12 HR in just over 100 AB when the Sox were building their massive lead in June.
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  #201  
Old 12-07-2013, 06:43 PM
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You add Belisario to your list of grievances?? These are signings smart teams make....1 yr deal, low money and an ultra tradeable commodity at the deadline when the Sox fall out of it. We'll end up paying him $1.6M and probably get a B level prospect back at the deadline.
You are right, teams make moves like this for exactly those reasons all the time. However, anything can happen between now and July. To say he's a lock for a B prospect in return at some point next season is some serious wishful thinking too. Really, it's just an underwhelming signing more than anything and his name is funny.

I had hoped the Abreu signing would be the start of an aggressive overhaul with some decent options in FA. We passed on all of em. Should have pushed harder for Granderson. He was the best option out there that a) fit the teams needs b) didn't have an astronomical price tag
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  #202  
Old 12-07-2013, 07:54 PM
delben91 delben91 is offline
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You are right, teams make moves like this for exactly those reasons all the time. However, anything can happen between now and July. To say he's a lock for a B prospect in return at some point next season is some serious wishful thinking too. Really, it's just an underwhelming signing more than anything and his name is funny.

I had hoped the Abreu signing would be the start of an aggressive overhaul with some decent options in FA. We passed on all of em. Should have pushed harder for Granderson. He was the best option out there that a) fit the teams needs b) didn't have an astronomical price tag
That's an excellent reason to dislike the signing, you've got me convinced now.
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  #203  
Old 12-07-2013, 08:39 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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You are right, teams make moves like this for exactly those reasons all the time. However, anything can happen between now and July. To say he's a lock for a B prospect in return at some point next season is some serious wishful thinking too. Really, it's just an underwhelming signing more than anything and his name is funny.

I had hoped the Abreu signing would be the start of an aggressive overhaul with some decent options in FA. We passed on all of em. Should have pushed harder for Granderson. He was the best option out there that a) fit the teams needs b) didn't have an astronomical price tag
How is $15m a year for a 32 year old OF who's batting average hasn't cracked .270 in five years and coming off an injury plagued season not astronomical?
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  #204  
Old 12-07-2013, 09:16 PM
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Yeah but Frank hit like 12 HR in just over 100 AB when the Sox were building their massive lead in June.
And yet, his career was so questionable by late July that after the White Sox let him go rather than pay him something like $8 million in 2006, he went to play for the A's for a base salary of something like $500,000. No team that could have used Thomas had enough faith in his future to offer him more. The White Sox would have had to pay him much more, and there were a lot of fans upset that they didn't long before anyone knew he would be healthy.

The Konerko signing for a fraction of his recent annual salries, for less money than he has made in at least a decade, isn't at all a bad one for the White Sox. He isn't a drain on the payroll and doesn't figure to be close to being the worst DH on the 2014 White Sox.
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  #205  
Old 12-07-2013, 10:02 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is online now
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How is $15m a year for a 32 year old OF who's batting average hasn't cracked .270 in five years and coming off an injury plagued season not astronomical?
It seems like that's where the market is right now. Those kind of contracts MIGHT become the new normal.
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  #206  
Old 12-07-2013, 10:10 PM
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Yeah but Frank hit like 12 HR in just over 100 AB when the Sox were building their massive lead in June.
He freakin' raked. I was lucky enough to go to one of those games. Such an exciting time, you were pretty much guaranteed to see him hit a HR every game. His OPS was over 1.000 the majority of that time, It really lifted the team going into the break.
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  #207  
Old 12-07-2013, 10:13 PM
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The White Sox would have had to pay him much more, and there were a lot of fans upset that they didn't long before anyone knew he would be healthy.
I think the anger came from seeing how much he gave to the organization. He put butts in seats and tried his best to get out on that field. I would've liked a sympathy contract. The Sox had the money. Doesn't matter with that particular player if he didn't deserve it based on his ability at that point. He never made what he deserved before.

It also seemed like it was a Kenny decision based off his personal relationship with Frank. And at that point in his career, who the heck is Kenny Williams?
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  #208  
Old 12-08-2013, 12:40 AM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Should have pushed harder for Granderson. He was the best option out there that a) fit the teams needs b) didn't have an astronomical price tag
a) He didn't fit any of our needs
b) He carried an astronomical price tag

I can't see how anyone would think that signing Granderson in their current state would benefit the Sox.
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  #209  
Old 12-08-2013, 12:47 AM
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I think the anger came from seeing how much he gave to the organization. He put butts in seats and tried his best to get out on that field. I would've liked a sympathy contract. The Sox had the money. Doesn't matter with that particular player if he didn't deserve it based on his ability at that point. He never made what he deserved before.

It also seemed like it was a Kenny decision based off his personal relationship with Frank. And at that point in his career, who the heck is Kenny Williams?
I understand that. I respect that, even though no one in baseball was willing to commit significant playing to and at least twice the major league minimum to Thomas because he was considered such a health risk. I respect that, even though the White Sox wouldn't have been able to afford Thome and Konerko in 2006 had they offered Thomas a contract.

What I find inconsistent is that the anger over not offering Thomas a 2006 contract seems equivalent to the anger over signing Konerko for 2014 at a fraction of what the White Sox had been paying him.
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  #210  
Old 12-08-2013, 01:35 AM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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I understand that. I respect that, even though no one in baseball was willing to commit significant playing to and at least twice the major league minimum to Thomas because he was considered such a health risk. I respect that, even though the White Sox wouldn't have been able to afford Thome and Konerko in 2006 had they offered Thomas a contract.

What I find inconsistent is that the anger over not offering Thomas a 2006 contract seems equivalent to the anger over signing Konerko for 2014 at a fraction of what the White Sox had been paying him.
In that offseason, the White Sox in 2006 improved on Thomas in trading for Jim Thome. I don't think it's going out on too far of a limb to say that it seems unlikely that Konerko will outperform Dunn and Abreu in 2014, although if anything hopefully the platoon split will help the team.
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