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  #46  
Old 11-21-2013, 08:07 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I agree, this is a phenomenal deal for Detroit if for no reason other than it allows Miggy to move back to the less demanding defensive position and save his legs. He wore down toward the end of last year, too, and it really hurt them.
I don't know...I like Kinsler and think he does a lot of things well, but I don't think he's the elite offensive player that Fielder is. Their lineup's still good with Cabrera, and perhaps more versatile now. But it's hard not to look at losing a bat like Fielder as a huge downgrade. Fielder's bat was elite, and the perfect compliment to Cabrera.

Milwaukee thought their lineup would be fine keeping Braun and losing Fielder, and it was disastrous for them.

I don't think we're competing with the Tigers any time soon, but I'm also not as afraid of them now.
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  #47  
Old 11-21-2013, 08:22 AM
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I don't know...I like Kinsler and think he does a lot of things well, but I don't think he's the elite offensive player that Fielder is. Their lineup's still good with Cabrera, and perhaps more versatile now. But it's hard not to look at losing a bat like Fielder as a huge downgrade. Fielder's bat was elite, and the perfect compliment to Cabrera.

Milwaukee thought their lineup would be fine keeping Braun and losing Fielder, and it was disastrous for them.

I don't think we're competing with the Tigers any time soon, but I'm also not as afraid of them now.
It basically depends on how you view Prince's career arc from here on out. He'll turn 30 years old during this upcoming season, that's historically pushing it for big men. If you think he will be able to buck historical trends and remain an elite bat for years, then yes, I agree, it's maybe not a great move. If he breaks down and the Tigers sold high, strengthening easily their weakest position on the field while simultaneously protecting their best overall player, then it is a great move.

Also probably depends on lot on how they use the approximately $100 million they just saved themselves.
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  #48  
Old 11-21-2013, 08:50 AM
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To me, it all comes down to what the Tigers do with the financial flexiblity that the trade gives them.

Right now, the Rangers win big, considering they get a difference-maker in Fielder with the Tigers paying for part of his salary, and the trade clears room for Profar to start at 2B.
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  #49  
Old 11-21-2013, 09:01 AM
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and the trade clears room for Profar to start at 2B.
or sign Cano

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  #50  
Old 11-21-2013, 09:03 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Fielder's already shown 2 straight years of regression. Last year, he was good, but didn't come close to earning his salary. This is about the time when his dad broke down and Prince is shorter and wider. The move is about allowing Miggy to move to first and freeing up money. This was a steal for the Tigers.
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  #51  
Old 11-21-2013, 09:11 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Player A: 712 PA, 25 HR, 75 BB, 819 OPS
Player B: 607 PA, 34 HR, 76 BB, 762 OPS


Obviously A is Prince and B is Dunn. We can't give away Dunn without sending money. The Tigers just rid themselves of paying Fielder $24M a year until 2020 and got back a decent player in return.
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  #52  
Old 11-21-2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
Player A: 712 PA, 25 HR, 75 BB, 819 OPS
Player B: 607 PA, 34 HR, 76 BB, 762 OPS


Obviously A is Prince and B is Dunn. We can't give away Dunn without sending money. The Tigers just rid themselves of paying Fielder $24M a year until 2020 and got back a decent player in return.
The Tigers also sent $30 million to the Rangers.
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  #53  
Old 11-21-2013, 09:33 AM
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The Tigers also sent $30 million to the Rangers.
Yeah but that doesn't even cover 20% of what the Rangers will have to pay Prince from now until the Presidential Election after that one that's still 3 years away.
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  #54  
Old 11-21-2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by palehozenychicty View Post
I doubt they go after Cano. Profar will slide to 2B and the Rangers can see if they get Cruz on a cheaper deal.
No question. The idea from the start was that they needed to figure a way to keep two of Profar/Andrus/Kinsler and had a jam in the IF. Fielder is an understandable pickup for them, because Mitch Moreland hasn't shown much, and might be more suited to taking the now-vacated David Murphy role.
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  #55  
Old 11-21-2013, 09:55 AM
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Yeah but that doesn't even cover 20% of what the Rangers will have to pay Prince from now until the Presidential Election after that one that's still 3 years away.
Oh I understand that. It's just the poster was stating the Sox would have to give up money to get rid of Dunn while the Tigers rid themselves of Fielder's contract while getting a good player in return, so I was just stating the Tigers also had to give up money to shed themselves of that contract as well.
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  #56  
Old 11-21-2013, 10:18 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by spawn View Post
Oh I understand that. It's just the poster was stating the Sox would have to give up money to get rid of Dunn while the Tigers rid themselves of Fielder's contract while getting a good player in return, so I was just stating the Tigers also had to give up money to shed themselves of that contract as well.
We would probably need to absorb around 66% of Dunn's contract to move him. I thought the difference made the point irrelevant enough not mention to it.
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  #57  
Old 11-21-2013, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
We would probably need to absorb around 66% of Dunn's contract to move him. I thought the difference made the point irrelevant enough not mention to it.
Gotcha!
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  #58  
Old 11-21-2013, 11:09 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
It basically depends on how you view Prince's career arc from here on out. He'll turn 30 years old during this upcoming season, that's historically pushing it for big men. If you think he will be able to buck historical trends and remain an elite bat for years, then yes, I agree, it's maybe not a great move. If he breaks down and the Tigers sold high, strengthening easily their weakest position on the field while simultaneously protecting their best overall player, then it is a great move.

Also probably depends on lot on how they use the approximately $100 million they just saved themselves.
Kinsler's already also on the wrong side of 30, has had way more injury issues, has had years where he's struggled with contact, and relies on speed as a large piece of his game. He'll be 32 in the middle of next season. Kinsler fits a need, sure, and he's a lot cheaper than Fielder. I just don't think Fielder is as sure a bet as Kinsler is to regress significantly over the next few seasons. At the end of Fielder's deal? Sure. But for the next few years, I think Fielder's the better bet to remain highly productive.
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  #59  
Old 11-21-2013, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
Player A: 712 PA, 25 HR, 75 BB, 819 OPS
Player B: 607 PA, 34 HR, 76 BB, 762 OPS


Obviously A is Prince and B is Dunn. We can't give away Dunn without sending money. The Tigers just rid themselves of paying Fielder $24M a year until 2020 and got back a decent player in return.
Fielder was .279/.362/.457 last year. If anyone on the White Sox had that line, we'd be toting him as a league MVP candidate.

60 points of OPS is a ton. In this case, it's the difference between being a 2 war player or a negative war player.
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  #60  
Old 11-21-2013, 11:21 AM
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Fielder for Kinsler is a great trade for both teams.
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