White Sox Interactive Forums
What's The Score?

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > What's The Score?
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 11-07-2013, 10:34 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 16,078
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
That has been a hallmark of the White Sox for pretty much the entirety of JR's tenure.
And most of major league baseball for the last 40 years.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 11-07-2013, 10:36 PM
slavko slavko is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: North Suburban
Posts: 5,278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
If anything, I think White Sox management has been rather penny wise and dollar foolish in the last decade or so by not spending money on the draft and amateur talent. Trading for established veterans and signing free agents seems a more expensive tactic in the end.
A whole lot of us want exactly this and post in favor of it. Don't want "to act like a small market team" etc. So some of us are going to beef, beef, beef no matter what they do.

I'll go with the "develop your own players and hold onto them as long as you can" method just on principle.
__________________
Ya Ta Hey, Black Crow.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 11-07-2013, 11:23 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 7,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
You can be cynical about White Sox management and about the lack of a competitive team on the field, but if the White Sox were only about profit, they could have lost 99 games with a much smaller payroll.
I never said i was cynical about the Sox having a competitive team on the field. I said as the Cubs, most MLB teams including the Sox are all about the bottom line. How they maximize this bottom differs from team to team. What the models are that teams are using, you or I dont know. Maximizing profits is goal of most businesses these days, Mlb franchises fall into this group.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 11-08-2013, 01:29 AM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 16,078
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
I never said i was cynical about the Sox having a competitive team on the field. I said as the Cubs, most MLB teams including the Sox are all about the bottom line. How they maximize this bottom differs from team to team. What the models are that teams are using, you or I dont know. Maximizing profits is goal of most businesses these days, Mlb franchises fall into this group.
If it were simply about the bottom line, the Sox wouldn't have signed Dunn. They wouldn't have traded for Peavy. They wouldn't have traded for Edwin Jackson. They wouldn't have signed Abreu. They wouldn't have picked up Rios on waivers.

You will find some disagreement over whether those moves were good baseball moves for the White Sox. But none of them are moves that would be made if it were "about the bottom line."

There was a time, a story is told, when the White Sox traded Ed Herrmann to make payroll. When a coach told Bill Veeck he couldn't afford to take a cab to the ballpark every day, a story goes, Veeck said he would take care of him and gave him tokens to ride the CTA. The Sporting News reported in 1970 that a rookie who broke his batting helmet after striking out was billed for the replacement, inspiring his teammates to take up a collection.

The current ownership is probably the least "bottom line" ownership the White Sox have ever had.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-08-2013, 01:52 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 7,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
If it were simply about the bottom line, the Sox wouldn't have signed Dunn. They wouldn't have traded for Peavy. They wouldn't have traded for Edwin Jackson. They wouldn't have signed Abreu. They wouldn't have picked up Rios on waivers.

You will find some disagreement over whether those moves were good baseball moves for the White Sox. But none of them are moves that would be made if it were "about the bottom line."

There was a time, a story is told, when the White Sox traded Ed Herrmann to make payroll. When a coach told Bill Veeck he couldn't afford to take a cab to the ballpark every day, a story goes, Veeck said he would take care of him and gave him tokens to ride the CTA. The Sporting News reported in 1970 that a rookie who broke his batting helmet after striking out was billed for the replacement, inspiring his teammates to take up a collection.

The current ownership is probably the least "bottom line" ownership the White Sox have ever had.

There are many models to achieve the best bottom line, we are not privy to these. The Sox model may be to retain as much of a fan base as possible, having a poor boys payroll and team may not achieve this. Future Tv contracts probably come into play also. A team with a declining fan base would affect the worth a future Tv contract. Looking at signings and payroll is not the only means to see if a team is maximizing their bottom line. You mentioned the old days of making payroll, well those days are not here, all teams are making money hand over fist and have no problem with that. Teams look to maximize profits for the present and also the future. Sox ownership is going no where and have models to maximize their bottom line for both now and the future. If you believe differently, so be it but you wont convince me.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 11-08-2013, 06:02 AM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is online now
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 53,730
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slavko View Post
A whole lot of us want exactly this and post in favor of it. Don't want "to act like a small market team" etc. So some of us are going to beef, beef, beef no matter what they do.

I'll go with the "develop your own players and hold onto them as long as you can" method just on principle.
The dynamics of baseball have changed over the last decade, teams are willing to offer long contracts to young players early in their careers to lock them up and remove them from the free agent market. It's happening across the league, from "big market" to "small market" teams.

How baseball operated in say, 1975 is completely irrelevant to this discussion. There is no question the Sox are significantly behind most of the league's most competitive teams in terms of player development, drafting, and scouting. That's why we're coming off the 3rd worst season in the league and have one of the worst minor league systems in baseball.
__________________
2014 Obligatory Attendance & Record Tracker

0-4

LAST GAME: May 31 - Padres 4, Sox 2
NEXT GAME: Maybe never? Apparently I am bad luck
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 11-08-2013, 12:37 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 16,078
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
The dynamics of baseball have changed over the last decade, teams are willing to offer long contracts to young players early in their careers to lock them up and remove them from the free agent market. It's happening across the league, from "big market" to "small market" teams.

How baseball operated in say, 1975 is completely irrelevant to this discussion. There is no question the Sox are significantly behind most of the league's most competitive teams in terms of player development, drafting, and scouting. That's why we're coming off the 3rd worst season in the league and have one of the worst minor league systems in baseball.
It will be interesting to see how the trend of locking up young talent develops. It isn't without risk (see Alex Rios and the Blue Jays, their greatest hits collection being an EP). There are players who don't perform as well when they are financially secure. There also are players who decline because of injury or the rigors of major league baseball.

Mostly teams are buying out arbitration years. And the higher pay for younger players probably affects what other players will make in arbitration because a team has exclusive rights, or at least first refusal, for six season. I'm not so sure that by the time most players reach free agency their best years will be behind them. Examples aren't hard to find.

It's a long way from 1975 where baseball was coming off of a decade of an amateur draft and the reserve clause, allowing someone as underfunded as Charlie Finley to establish a dynasty.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 11-09-2013, 11:40 AM
BigKlu59 BigKlu59 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Hotel California
Posts: 1,885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxandtheCityTee View Post
To anyone who knows, how do these team-owned networks like YES fill up their content when they don't have ball games to air? Is it all re-runs of sports events they own the rights to, or what? I've wondered that. If you have to go buy or license or create content beyond the ball games, that would seem to eat into the profits, yet you always hear that these networks are hugely profitable to the team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asindc View Post
In this area, MASN airs almost all the local teams aside from the 'skins. They also air college sports, both local and national, and have local sports talk shows. I know YES does the same, and adds the Italian Serie A to their lineup as well.
Yup, and dont forget Yankeeography and the Talk Shows. The NYC "Fan" broadcast with Francesa runs for 5 hrs.. NESN is BoSox based with Bruins, Celtics and college hockey, BC, BU Football etc... They've got their Yap Gurus, Callahan and Co with a bitch fest as well.

BK59
__________________
Big Klu says... "When you step in the box you go to war"..
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 11-09-2013, 03:43 PM
Steelrod Steelrod is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,526
Default

Doesn't the Tribune still own 5% of the Cubs?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:57 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.