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  #1  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:33 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Default Giants lose mind

Resign Lincecum for $35 million over two years. The guy had ERA+'s of 68 and 76 the last two years.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/98...ancisco-giants
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  #2  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:45 PM
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The fact that this team run by this management has managed to win 2 of the last 3 World Series (4 by the end of next week) should tell you how much random lucky nonsense goes into this sport.
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  #3  
Old 10-23-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
The fact that this team run by this management has managed to win 2 of the last 3 World Series (4 by the end of next week) should tell you how much random lucky nonsense goes into this sport.
Or they just got sentimental after those two titles.

This deal is just BAD.
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  #4  
Old 10-23-2013, 08:58 AM
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Or they just got sentimental after those two titles.

This deal is just BAD.
I don't know, Sabean already had a pretty solid reputation as a terrible GM but it looks like San Francisco hit the jackpot when the normally smart Rays whiffed HORRIBLY on Tim Beckham in draft that contained guys like Buster Posey, Pedro Alvarez, and Eric Hosmer...
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:21 AM
Irishsox1 Irishsox1 is offline
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He's 30 years old, he hasn't been injured and it's only a 2 year deal. It's not like it was a 7 year Barry Zito deal. If Lincecum doesn't work, he's been decent out of the pen.
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:33 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I don't know, Sabean already had a pretty solid reputation as a terrible GM but it looks like San Francisco hit the jackpot when the normally smart Rays whiffed HORRIBLY on Tim Beckham in draft that contained guys like Buster Posey, Pedro Alvarez, and Eric Hosmer...
Sabean benefited from tremendous pitching a bit, but he's not as horrible as the impressions. He, obviously, is still doling out big contracts to dubious players (most work out for him though). But he's changed his tune on the draft since his early days (when he made Kenny Williams look like the monopoly guy), and the Giants have benefited tremendously.
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:35 AM
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He's 30 years old, he hasn't been injured and it's only a 2 year deal. It's not like it was a 7 year Barry Zito deal. If Lincecum doesn't work, he's been decent out of the pen.
It's $17.5 million each of the next two seasons for a guy with a 4.86 era the last two years in a pitcher's park. That's not just an overpay, that's a good $17 million more a year than he should be getting. He hasn't pitched well enough to deserve a guaranteed contract. His ERA plus numbers place him as dead last among qualifying starters the last two seasons. He has been the worst regular pitcher in baseball.
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  #8  
Old 10-23-2013, 10:07 AM
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I'm still trying to figure out whose mind the Giants lost and when they became a repository of minds.
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  #9  
Old 10-23-2013, 11:36 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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I don't know if this is a vast overpay like some claim.

He would have been the 2nd best starter FA after Price, and IMO, he'd get close to or more than that on the open market for staff ace reputation alone, despite the underlying numbers.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:40 AM
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Still waiting for the market to correct itself.

Or I was promised this 10 years ago.
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  #11  
Old 10-23-2013, 12:03 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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I don't know if this is a vast overpay like some claim.

He would have been the 2nd best starter FA after Price, and IMO, he'd get close to or more than that on the open market for staff ace reputation alone, despite the underlying numbers.
What on Earth are you basing that on? In 2012 his ERA+ (which accounts for ballparks and defense) was 88th out of 88 pitchers and in 2013 he was 77th out of 81 pitchers. His WAR was negative 2.3 in that span. At best he's a reclamation project, and that's if you think he'll gain back the over 4mph he lost on his fastball two years ago. Why not simply extend the qualifying offer? I doubt anyone offered him the $13 or so million it would take him to turn it down, and nothing about what's happening to him suggests he won't be just as bad in the future.
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  #12  
Old 10-23-2013, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I don't know, Sabean already had a pretty solid reputation as a terrible GM but it looks like San Francisco hit the jackpot when the normally smart Rays whiffed HORRIBLY on Tim Beckham in draft that contained guys like Buster Posey, Pedro Alvarez, and Eric Hosmer...
The 2010 title had a lot to do with Sabean picking up players at deadline and on waivers, relievers for the most part. The Giants in September 2010 were an appreciably better team than the Giants of June 2010. The 2012 title was a team Sabean built around pitching and Buster Posey. Sabean had a lot to do with the two championships.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:19 PM
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The 2010 title had a lot to do with Sabean picking up players at deadline and on waivers, relievers for the most part. The Giants in September 2010 were an appreciably better team than the Giants of June 2010. The 2012 title was a team Sabean built around pitching and Buster Posey. Sabean had a lot to do with the two championships.
Which basically proves my original point, the dude spent most of his career as a GM as a laughingstock and then he magically overnight turned into a genius? No, it's spelled L-U-C-K.
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  #14  
Old 10-23-2013, 12:32 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Which basically proves my original point, the dude spent most of his career as a GM as a laughingstock and then he magically overnight turned into a genius? No, it's spelled L-U-C-K.
He changed his philosophy, especially in regards to the draft. That's making your own luck.
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  #15  
Old 10-23-2013, 12:47 PM
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Which basically proves my original point, the dude spent most of his career as a GM as a laughingstock and then he magically overnight turned into a genius? No, it's spelled L-U-C-K.
Or It could mean that the people doing the laughing were wrong, defining Sabean by the Zito signing, or the person being laughed at improved by learning from mistakes. There wasn't anything lucky about the Giants winning the World Series in 2010 and 2012. Getting out of the National League was a bit more of a struggle for the Giants last year, and there may have been a bit of luck with the genius running the Nationals shutting down Strasburg, which may or may not have impacted the NLCS, but every team who made the NL postseason last year was clearly superior than every team who made the AL postseason last year.

In 2010, Sabean went out and got exactly what the team needed to catch and overtake the Padres before and after the trading deadline. The Giants were lucky that the players performed as they were capable. They were lucky that more players didn't get more seriously injured. But that really isn't being lucky.

Teams don't win World Series championships because of luck.
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