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Congratulations on the Rookie records for HR and RBI in April, Jose!

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  #196  
Old 10-19-2013, 11:28 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
He's not Gordon Beckham and your hyperbole is astounding.
No, but you used the same logic to defend him as people used for Beckham. Forget three horrible years as a regular with a clear path of regression, the guys still young! It makes no sense. By the logic you used, anyone who is 24 should be starting regardless of ability.
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  #197  
Old 10-19-2013, 11:32 AM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Hey Viciedo's WAR was +.01 in 2013!
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  #198  
Old 10-19-2013, 12:20 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
No, but you used the same logic to defend him as people used for Beckham. Forget three horrible years as a regular with a clear path of regression, the guys still young! It makes no sense. By the logic you used, anyone who is 24 should be starting regardless of ability.
Beckham is hardly horrible or one of the worst in the league, even with his average hitting abilities his defense saves a lot of runs. You can name on one hand the outstanding hitters at the position in the league.
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  #199  
Old 10-19-2013, 12:38 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
Beckham is hardly horrible or one of the worst in the league, even with his average hitting abilities his defense saves a lot of runs. You can name on one hand the outstanding hitters at the position in the league.
I don't want to turn this into a discussion on whether Beckham is horrible, I don't think he is. But he didn't improve either, something people were adamant he would years after (and thousands of plate appearances after) it was obvious he wasn't that player.
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  #200  
Old 10-19-2013, 01:03 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
No, but you used the same logic to defend him as people used for Beckham. Forget three horrible years as a regular with a clear path of regression, the guys still young! It makes no sense. By the logic you used, anyone who is 24 should be starting regardless of ability.
3 years as a regular? Do tell.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoota
I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #201  
Old 10-19-2013, 01:59 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
Beckham is hardly horrible or one of the worst in the league, even with his average hitting abilities his defense saves a lot of runs. You can name on one hand the outstanding hitters at the position in the league.
Actually 10 second basemen in AL had a higher batting average than Gordon. He is not average in hitting ability and his HR/RBI numbers were way below average.
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  #202  
Old 10-19-2013, 02:43 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
Actually 10 second basemen in AL had a higher batting average than Gordon. He is not average in hitting ability and his HR/RBI numbers were way below average.
Beckham's batting average fell off appreciably late in the season. That happened in his rookie season, which I believed was related to Guillen moving him to the No. 2 spot in the lineup. This season, Beckham looked like he had figured things out offensively but dealt with some injuries and was playing through some of that at the end of the season. This could have been his breakthrough year. His first injury in April really even turned the White Sox season around after a 4-2 opening homestand.

I've seen improvement in Beckham and don't believe his future is summarized by his previous seasons. Really, if you were to look at Keppinger coming into 2013 and judged him against Beckham, you might suggest that he one of the above-average second basemen the White Sox should be employing instead of Beckham. The reality was that the White Sox were a better team with Beckham at second than Keppinger. I don't believe anyone believed that to be the reality of 2013.

I think the Abreu signing is a positive. It's a gamble. Signing players to long-term contracts is always a gamble. This one looks better than the Dunn signing did when that came down, and WSI was in party mode that day. Abreu could turn out to be as bad as Dunn, but he could much better than anyone had the right to expect Dunn to be.
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  #203  
Old 10-19-2013, 02:48 PM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
3 years as a regular? Do tell.
You must understand munch-math by now. Take whatever he says, subtract one third, and you get to the point he was shooting for.
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  #204  
Old 10-19-2013, 04:08 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
Actually 10 second basemen in AL had a higher batting average than Gordon. He is not average in hitting ability and his HR/RBI numbers were way below average.
He didn't play half the year and BA is overrated. He has a WAR above replacement level , not much, but higher than Viciedo, who for some reason people love on this forum.
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  #205  
Old 10-19-2013, 04:14 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I don't want to turn this into a discussion on whether Beckham is horrible, I don't think he is. But he didn't improve either, something people were adamant he would years after (and thousands of plate appearances after) it was obvious he wasn't that player.
Yeah he's not likely to get any better , he is an excellent fielding , ok hitting 2B that sticks out like a sore thumb on a team that can't hit.
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  #206  
Old 10-19-2013, 04:19 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Back to Jose, I was listening to the Fangraphs podcast and they say this particular guy , who has forecast accurately the MLB careers of Cespedes and Puig among others , has Abreu at a . 320 40 plus HR major league projection. In other words another Frank Thomas, boy would that be nice, especially with another young stud like Avisail.
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  #207  
Old 10-19-2013, 05:12 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
Back to Jose, I was listening to the Fangraphs podcast and they say this particular guy , who has forecast accurately the MLB careers of Cespedes and Puig among others , has Abreu at a . 320 40 plus HR major league projection. In other words another Frank Thomas, boy would that be nice, especially with another young stud like Avisail.

Hahn needs to now find a young left-hander hitter---- I guess a 3B-LF or CF who he can put between AG and Abreu after Dunn leaves. I figure the furture catcher will most likey not be a #4 hitter.
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  #208  
Old 10-19-2013, 05:27 PM
SoxSpeed22 SoxSpeed22 is offline
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The future catcher will hopefully be the #8 or 9 hitter down the road. This year, we should probably get a stopgap guy and hopefully have that guy in 2 or 3 years, but that would require someone coming up through the system. So far, the only guy with a valid shot of doing that is Kevan Smith, but we will have to see how he progresses.
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  #209  
Old 10-19-2013, 07:05 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Bad news is it looks like the Yankees are planning on breaking the bank for guys like McCann and in need of free agents at the same positions as the Sox , 3B for example.
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  #210  
Old 10-19-2013, 07:08 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Beckham's batting average fell off appreciably late in the season. That happened in his rookie season, which I believed was related to Guillen moving him to the No. 2 spot in the lineup. This season, Beckham looked like he had figured things out offensively but dealt with some injuries and was playing through some of that at the end of the season. This could have been his breakthrough year. His first injury in April really even turned the White Sox season around after a 4-2 opening homestand.

I've seen improvement in Beckham and don't believe his future is summarized by his previous seasons. Really, if you were to look at Keppinger coming into 2013 and judged him against Beckham, you might suggest that he one of the above-average second basemen the White Sox should be employing instead of Beckham. The reality was that the White Sox were a better team with Beckham at second than Keppinger. I don't believe anyone believed that to be the reality of 2013.

I think the Abreu signing is a positive. It's a gamble. Signing players to long-term contracts is always a gamble. This one looks better than the Dunn signing did when that came down, and WSI was in party mode that day. Abreu could turn out to be as bad as Dunn, but he could much better than anyone had the right to expect Dunn to be.
Not even a chance he isn't better than Dunn.
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