ALCS - Red Sox/Tigers - Poll & Games Thread

[SBSoxFan]

Originally Posted by amsteel

There's a reason it's not called the 'run as fast as you can and jump track', Torii.

Hell of an effort, though.

Hunter's route to that ball was Rowand-esque. Then Hunter overran it to boot.

Detroit, 2005 called. When your starter is rolling don't take him out of the game.

**** Detroit.

[SCCWS]

Originally Posted by Soxman219

I should be happy that the Tigers choked, but for some reason I angry. I really don't like Boston fans, seeing them celebrate like that killed my vibe.

You had a problem at Fenway with their fans??? I have been to 15-20 White Sox games in Boston over the last 30+ years. I have never had a problem with Red Sox fans when rooting for the White Sox. They are passionate fans but are not aggressive toward opponent fans. Their typical crowd is a mother/father and a couple of kids. I have been to New York, Philly and LA and the crowds are much more aggressive toward opponent fans. I have been to Tampa numerous times but their fans----the few that show- are way too laid back. More like a tennis crowd w cowbells.

[SI1020]

Originally Posted by SBSoxFan

Hunter's route to that ball was Rowand-esque. Then Hunter overran it to boot.

Detroit, 2005 called. When your starter is rolling don't take him out of the game.

**** Detroit.

Talk about ruining my morning. Years back a couple of prominent posters regularly trashed Rowand's fielding ability and started the criticism that Rowand is lousy defensively and takes bad routes to the ball. Since Rowand left the team the Sox have had trouble filling his shoes in CF. The one guy who had more natural ability than him didn't always bring his A game at bat and in the field for whatever reasons. As for the bad routes thing I remember a Sox outfielder, noted for his speed that would on occasion charge a ball that was clearly hit over his head. That is taking a bad route to a fly ball. Sometimes all an outfielder gets is a fraction of a fraction of a second to judge height, speed and trajectory. Last night Hunter admitted that he briefly lost the ball in the lights. The really good outfielders make those instantaneous adjustments that enable them to make difficult catches. That was a great effort by Torii Hunter. He deserves applause and credit not armchair scorn.

[SCCWS]

Originally Posted by SI1020

Talk about ruining my morning. Years back a couple of prominent posters regularly trashed Rowand's fielding ability and started the criticism that Rowand is lousy defensively and takes bad routes to the ball. Since Rowand left the team the Sox have had trouble filling his shoes in CF. The one guy who had more natural ability than him didn't always bring his A game at bat and in the field for whatever reasons. As for the bad routes thing I remember a Sox outfielder, noted for his speed that would on occasion charge a ball that was clearly hit over his head. That is taking a bad route to a fly ball. Sometimes all an outfielder gets is a fraction of a fraction of a second to judge height, speed and trajectory. Last night Hunter admitted that he briefly lost the ball in the lights. The really good outfielders make those instantaneous adjustments that enable them to make difficult catches. That was a great effort by Torii Hunter. He deserves applause and credit not armchair scorn.

Agree. That was a line shot not a fly ball and it only took a few seconds for it to go out. Great effort by Hunter to even get close to making a play on it.

[TDog]

Originally Posted by SCCWS

Agree. That was a line shot not a fly ball and it only took a few seconds for it to go out. Great effort by Hunter to even get close to making a play on it.

I agree, but it seemed as the ball went past his glove that he always caught the ball in games against the White Sox during his Twins years. Maybe in the Metrodome, with the nature of the wall there, he would have made the catch.

I was reminded that the Red Sox before the 2011 season signed Carl Crawford to play left, and consensus was that it would help make the Red Sox unbeatable. They missed the 2011 wild card by one game, giving up two in the ninth while protecting a one-run lead on the last day of the season. The run that knocked them out of the postseason came on a line drive that many believed Crawford should have caught. That, though, was a routine play, not what would have been an I-don't-believe-what-I-just-saw play not completed by the free agent the Tigers signed before the season to put them over the top.

Of course, after not making the great play to end the inning and preserve a four-run lead, the Tigers lost the game through incompetent play. An infield single has the effect of a leadoff double because of an ill-advised throw to a first baseman who couldn't keep the ball from skipping past him. Then a wild pitch and the first baseman missing a popup in the stands, a routine popup compared to some of the aggressive in-the-stands catches made in the postseason in recent years, and then a ground ball through the drawn-in infield from the batter with new life.

The Tigers didn't lose many games because of their defense this year (a loss against the White Sox when Jackson had a bad day in center comes to mind), certainly not as many as they did in 2012. And teams that win a lot of games win games that they cold have lost if other teams had made the plays. It isn't so much luck. For one thing, the Red Sox put runs on the board Monday when they stopped striking out. But the Red Sox do seem to have capitalized on Scherzer coming out after seven. In the postseason, pitch counts should be irrelevant. If you are counting pitchers to save pitchers work for when it might matter most, this is what you've been saving them for. Ozzie Guillen didn't taken any chances with what he might have gotten out of the bullpen when his starters were rolling in the 2005 ALCS.

The upshot is, Tigers starters have no-hit their opponents through at least the first five innings of their last three games and it feels like the Red Sox are on a roll after the last two. The Tigers certainly could bounce back. Not that the Ortiz grand slam was as important as the three-run two-out eighth-inning Bernie Carbo home run in 1975, but the Red Sox lost the next night -- in Fenway -- after winning one of all-time great World Series games. Still after those last two innings in Fenway, the Tigers collectively have to feel they don't want this series to return to Boston.

[SBSoxFan]

Originally Posted by SI1020

Talk about ruining my morning. Years back a couple of prominent posters regularly trashed Rowand's fielding ability and started the criticism that Rowand is lousy defensively and takes bad routes to the ball. Since Rowand left the team the Sox have had trouble filling his shoes in CF. The one guy who had more natural ability than him didn't always bring his A game at bat and in the field for whatever reasons. As for the bad routes thing I remember a Sox outfielder, noted for his speed that would on occasion charge a ball that was clearly hit over his head. That is taking a bad route to a fly ball. Sometimes all an outfielder gets is a fraction of a fraction of a second to judge height, speed and trajectory. Last night Hunter admitted that he briefly lost the ball in the lights. The really good outfielders make those instantaneous adjustments that enable them to make difficult catches. That was a great effort by Torii Hunter. He deserves applause and credit not armchair scorn.

I didn't mean to ruin your morning. I used the Rowand reference precisely because, as you noted, posters here regularly trashed Rowand's fielding ability. Perhaps I should have teal-ed it.

For whatever reason (lost it in the lights), he did not take a "proper" route to the ball, and he ended up overrunning the ball, a ball that was very catchable. My opinion is somewhat biased, however, and I'm being overly judgmental because I will never ever give Detroit applause for anything.

[slavko]

Originally Posted by SBSoxFan

I didn't mean to ruin your morning. I used the Rowand reference precisely because, as you noted, posters here regularly trashed Rowand's fielding ability. Perhaps I should have teal-ed it.

For whatever reason (lost it in the lights), he did not take a "proper" route to the ball, and he ended up overrunning the ball, a ball that was very catchable. My opinion is somewhat biased, however, and I'm being overly judgmental because I will never ever give Detroit applause for anything.

He overran it, the video just showed me. Maybe it was hit so hard it was "knuckling" like liners sometimes do.

Rowand's only problem, to me, was breaking back sometimes on balls hit in front of him.

[lpneck]

Originally Posted by TDog

But the Red Sox do seem to have capitalized on Scherzer coming out after seven. In the postseason, pitch counts should be irrelevant. If you are counting pitchers to save pitchers work for when it might matter most, this is what you've been saving them for. Ozzie Guillen didn't taken any chances with what he might have gotten out of the bullpen when his starters were rolling in the 2005 ALCS.

Scherzer threw 108 pitches. There is no way he is finishing the game, and even if he gets through the 8th you have set him up to throw 125 pitches or so at the end of the year with a huge potential game six start in 4 days. The bullpen has to hold a 4-run lead.

Ozzie and the 2005 ALCS starters are not relevant to the argument as none of the starters were in the same situation. Buehrle threw 99 pitches- he would have come out for the 10th if it had stayed tied. Garland 118, Garcia 116, and Contreras 114. Garland threw the most pitches, and he was at 91 after seven, not 108. Contreras was at 95 after 7 innings in a 3-3 game, and I remember thinking he would not finish. But the Sox scored in the 8th and he had an 8 pitch inning to allow him to have the chance to pitch the 9th.

[TDog]

Originally Posted by lpneck

Scherzer threw 108 pitches. There is no way he is finishing the game, and even if he gets through the 8th you have set him up to throw 125 pitches or so at the end of the year with a huge potential game six start in 4 days. The bullpen has to hold a 4-run lead.

Ozzie and the 2005 ALCS starters are not relevant to the argument as none of the starters were in the same situation. Buehrle threw 99 pitches- he would have come out for the 10th if it had stayed tied. Garland 118, Garcia 116, and Contreras 114. Garland threw the most pitches, and he was at 91 after seven, not 108. Contreras was at 95 after 7 innings in a 3-3 game, and I remember thinking he would not finish. But the Sox scored in the 8th and he had an 8 pitch inning to allow him to have the chance to pitch the 9th.

Of course the bullpen should have been able to hold a four-run lead, but if Scherer show no signs of tiring, his pitch count was irrelevant.

[SCCWS]

Originally Posted by TDog

Of course the bullpen should have been able to hold a four-run lead, but if Scherer show no signs of tiring, his pitch count was irrelevant.

Not that it was applicable in this situation since Scherzer cruised but Dennis Eckersley has an interesting take on pitch count. He says you have to factor in stress pitching as part of total pitches. His point, which I found interesting , was a pitcher who is forced to pitch out of jams in a game will expend more energy than one who has an easier game but may throw more pitches.

[SI1020]

Scherzer said "I was done." Or was he trying too hard to convince us?

http://www.macombdaily.com/sports/20...rzer-was-spent

[SephClone89]

Originally Posted by TDog

I agree, but it seemed as the ball went past his glove that he always caught the ball in games against the White Sox during his Twins years. Maybe in the Metrodome, with the nature of the wall there, he would have made the catch.

I was reminded that the Red Sox before the 2011 season signed Carl Crawford to play left, and consensus was that it would help make the Red Sox unbeatable. They missed the 2011 wild card by one game, giving up two in the ninth while protecting a one-run lead on the last day of the season. The run that knocked them out of the postseason came on a line drive that many believed Crawford should have caught. That, though, was a routine play, not what would have been an I-don't-believe-what-I-just-saw play not completed by the free agent the Tigers signed before the season to put them over the top.

Of course, after not making the great play to end the inning and preserve a four-run lead, the Tigers lost the game through incompetent play. An infield single has the effect of a leadoff double because of an ill-advised throw to a first baseman who couldn't keep the ball from skipping past him. Then a wild pitch and the first baseman missing a popup in the stands, a routine popup compared to some of the aggressive in-the-stands catches made in the postseason in recent years, and then a ground ball through the drawn-in infield from the batter with new life.

The Tigers didn't lose many games because of their defense this year (a loss against the White Sox when Jackson had a bad day in center comes to mind), certainly not as many as they did in 2012. And teams that win a lot of games win games that they cold have lost if other teams had made the plays. It isn't so much luck. For one thing, the Red Sox put runs on the board Monday when they stopped striking out. But the Red Sox do seem to have capitalized on Scherzer coming out after seven. In the postseason, pitch counts should be irrelevant. If you are counting pitchers to save pitchers work for when it might matter most, this is what you've been saving them for. Ozzie Guillen didn't taken any chances with what he might have gotten out of the bullpen when his starters were rolling in the 2005 ALCS.

The upshot is, Tigers starters have no-hit their opponents through at least the first five innings of their last three games and it feels like the Red Sox are on a roll after the last two. The Tigers certainly could bounce back. Not that the Ortiz grand slam was as important as the three-run two-out eighth-inning Bernie Carbo home run in 1975, but the Red Sox lost the next night -- in Fenway -- after winning one of all-time great World Series games. Still after those last two innings in Fenway, the Tigers collectively have to feel they don't want this series to return to Boston.

I think you have the most distinctive posting style I've ever seen on a forum.

[#1swisher]

Pregame 2:30 with A.J. Pierzynski

3:07 pm FOX
Game 3 - Boston at Detroit

Lackey v Verlander


http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/10/...game-3-lineups

[SephClone89]

Originally Posted by #1swisher

Pregame 2:30 with A.J. Pierzynski

3:07 pm FOX
Game 3 - Boston at Detroit

Lackey v Verlander


http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/10/...game-3-lineups

Actually, you have a pretty distinctive posting style as well. Always informative.

[#1swisher]

Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier The scoreboard is out. The lights are in the process of turning back on.


Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier
Delay - Red Sox are walking off the field.

UPDATE:
Alex Speier ‏@alexspeier 3m Lights are back on, for what it's worth. Red Sox heading back on the field.