Sox after Granderson?

[blandman]

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

Roll your eyes all you want. The kid throws a 95 mph 4 seamer. He attacks the zone. He doesn't rely on off speed pitches. He pitches to contact, yet still gets k's at a solid rate. Batters hit .237 off that fastball. That's a power pitcher. Sorry.

He doesn't throw a 95 mph 4 seamer. He throws it at 91-92 almost exclusively, and has hit 95 on extremely rare occassion. By your logic, Aroldis Chapman has a 105 mph 4 seamer because he's hit it a few times. Nevermind that 99% of his fastballs never touch close to that.

[Foulke You]

Originally Posted by blandman

I know enough to know that when a guy consistently hits 91, guys at the plate don't consider him either of those things. He's not throwing hard, and his fastball's not fast enough to throw for 90% of his pitches. So yeah, neither.

Late this season, Konerko made it a point to tell reporters about the "rave reviews" he was getting at 1B from opposing hitters regarding Quintana. They talked about how he doesn't show the hitters anything and keeps them guessing, in addition to his great stuff. Regardless of velocity, the most telling quote for me is that the hitters were telling Konerko that he "doesn't show anything". This means that Jose is learning how to pitch. If Quintana has learned to make every pitch look similar coming out of his hand to the opposing batter, then he is a very dangerous pitcher regardless of whether he is throwing 94 or 91 mph. Here is a link to the article that has the Konerko quiote:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...uintana-de-aza

[blandman]

Originally Posted by Foulke You

Late this season, Konerko made it a point to tell reporters about the "rave reviews" he was getting at 1B from opposing hitters regarding Quintana. They talked about how he doesn't show the hitters anything and keeps them guessing, in addition to his great stuff. Regardless of velocity, the most telling quote for me is that the hitters were telling Konerko that he "doesn't show anything". This means that Jose is learning how to pitch. If Quintana has learned to make every pitch look similar coming out of his hand to the opposing batter, then he is a very dangerous pitcher regardless of whether he is throwing 94 or 91 mph. Here is a link to the article that has the Konerko quiote:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...uintana-de-aza

He's talking about his deception. As I mentioned before, I'm not enthralled with guys that get by because of a bunch of pitches and smoke and mirrors. Yeah, some guys turn it into a great career. In most cases, those guys don't last half a decade.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by blandman

He's talking about his deception. As I mentioned before, I'm not enthralled with guys that get by because of a bunch of pitches and smoke and mirrors. Yeah, some guys turn it into a great career. In most cases, those guys don't last half a decade.

All pitchers pitch with deception. As has been noted, only a handful of lefties throw harder than Quintana. I don't think the guy is a flameballing power arm, but I think people who still call him a smoke and mirrors, crafty lefty didn't watch him pitch at all this season.

[DumpJerry]

Originally Posted by doublem23

All pitchers pitch with deception. As has been noted, only a handful of lefties throw harder than Quintana. I don't think the guy is a flameballing power arm, but I think people who still call him a smoke and mirrors, crafty lefty didn't watch him pitch at all this season.

If he ain't Sandy Koufax, he's a Slow Pitch Softball player. Got it?

[blandman]

Originally Posted by doublem23

All pitchers pitch with deception. As has been noted, only a handful of lefties throw harder than Quintana. I don't think the guy is a flameballing power arm, but I think people who still call him a smoke and mirrors, crafty lefty didn't watch him pitch at all this season.

I think the problem is it's really understated the part that his deception causes players at the plate because he doesn't have a funky Hideo Nomo-like motion. But he's probably one of the best in the game at it. Take it away from him and on the surface he isn't doing anything special. And no, I don't agree that simply because he sits at 91 usually he isn't relying heavily on craft over substance. The guy has six regular pitches, three kinds of fastballs, and no single pitch that would rate a "plus" scout grade. Simply because there's a dearth of quality lefties in the league doesn't mean he's not getting by with deception and a mix of pitches more than anything else. Like I said, none of that makes him "bad" per se, just riskier than what you'd think looking at his numbers. Which is exactly why he's the guy being shopped.

[TaylorStSox]

It's like talking to a wall. There's nothing gimmicky about Quintana. He throws hard and attacks the zone. That's a power pitcher.

[DumpJerry]

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

It's like talking to a wall. There's nothing gimmicky about Quintana. He throws hard and attacks the zone. That's a power pitcher.

Not true. I once saw him release the ball and then it turned into a duck and flew away. The opposing Manager yelled at the Umpires because of his "gimmick," but there was nothing the Rule Book prohibiting it.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

It's like talking to a wall. There's nothing gimmicky about Quintana. He throws hard and attacks the zone. That's a power pitcher.

It's like talking to a wall. A 91 mph fastball is not throwing hard.

[kittle42]

Originally Posted by blandman

It's like talking to a wall. A 91 mph fastball is not throwing hard.

Regardless of the rest of his position, this is correct.

[mzh]

Originally Posted by kittle42

Regardless of the rest of his position, this is correct.

No, but everything is relative. If only ten lefties in the league throw harder than him, it's beside the point. He's not a pitcher that relies on deception and craftiness to get outs. He's not Bruce Chen. Anybody who's watched him pitch knows that this is the case.

[TaylorStSox]

Is Chris Sale a power pitcher? His average FB is 93.

[kittle42]

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

Is Chris Sale a power pitcher? His average FB is 93.

The line has to be drawn somewhere. Is it at 92? 93? 94? More?

At some point solely by numbers, 93 is power and 92 is not, I suppose. I have no idea where the line is.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by kittle42

The line has to be drawn somewhere. Is it at 92? 93? 94? More?

At some point solely by numbers, 93 is power and 92 is not, I suppose. I have no idea where the line is.

And that's ridiculous.

[SoxSpeed22]

What makes Jose different than "power" pitchers is that he is able to hit any part of the strike zone with his fastball. Batters had a much tougher time getting to his fastball with two strikes this year, since he was able to use location to set them up and put them away. I would like to see him use his secondary pitches early in the count next year, but that's assuming he does polish it up a little more.
Back to Granderson, I'm also in the camp of signing him for the right price. If someone offers him a ton of money, there is no need to get into a bidding war.