Sox after Granderson?

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by ZombieRob

There's a TON of soft tossing lefties who have been effective. And he still throws around 90.

Quintana works in the 94-95 range, he's not just a soft tossing lefty who depends on deception.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Quintana works in the 94-95 range, he's not just a soft tossing lefty who depends on deception.

The people that think Quintana is a soft tosser aren't watching the games. There's no other explanation. If anything, he's a power pitcher.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Quintana works in the 94-95 range, he's not just a soft tossing lefty who depends on deception.

Claiming he throws his four seamer at 95 is no different than if I claimed he threw at 86 (because he threw it that slow just as often). His average velocity on that pitch was 91, and he almost never dialed it up to 95 because he can't keep his control on that pitch, which is important because he gets no movement on it. He threw it at 91-92 almost every game of the season, and relied way more on his breaking stuff.

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

The people that think Quintana is a soft tosser aren't watching the games. There's no other explanation. If anything, he's a power pitcher.

The only way you could think he's a fire-baller is if you watched one or two pitches a game, at most. There's no other explanation.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by blandman

Claiming he throws his four seamer at 95 is no different than if I claimed he threw at 86 (because he threw it that slow just as often). His average velocity on that pitch was 91, and he almost never dialed it up to 95 because he can't keep his control on that pitch, which is important because he gets no movement on it. He threw it at 91-92 almost every game of the season, and relied way more on his breaking stuff.

You're right, I was a little generous with his velocity, but between his two-seamer and four-seamer, he still threw about 60% fastballs in 2013 and worked an average 91-92 MPH on them (a 1-2.5 MPH improvement over 2012). I still think he pitches with more power than a lot of people give him credit for.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by doublem23

You're right, I was a little generous with his velocity, but between his two-seamer and four-seamer, he still threw about 60% fastballs in 2013 and worked an average 91-92 MPH on them (a 1-2.5 MPH improvement over 2012). I still think he pitches with more power than a lot of people give him credit for.

I definitely give him credit for the improvement in velocity, without it he would not be able to sustain his success from last year. I'm not sure he'll keep it though, especially as he gets older. Which is why I'm on the "trade him while he's got value" train.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by blandman

Claiming he throws his four seamer at 95 is no different than if I claimed he threw at 86 (because he threw it that slow just as often). His average velocity on that pitch was 91, and he almost never dialed it up to 95 because he can't keep his control on that pitch, which is important because he gets no movement on it. He threw it at 91-92 almost every game of the season, and relied way more on his breaking stuff.



The only way you could think he's a fire-baller is if you watched one or two pitches a game, at most. There's no other explanation.

I never said he was a fire baller.

The trends say he will maintain his velocity for a while. He's actually gained velocity every month he's been in the major leagues.

[EMachine10]

I've certainly seen him dial it up to 94 to put away a hitter on a well placed fastball. He usually sits 91-93.

[mzh]

91-93 from a lefty is a lot different than 91-93 for a righty.

As meaningless of a stat as it is, I think people would be buying into this kid a lot more if he had won 16 games, like he should have. It may be completely psychological, but I think it has merit.

[mzh]

Actually, I'm going to put an end to this right now. Quintana, averaging 91.2 MPH, tied for the 10th hardest fastball among all lefty starters in Major League Baseball last year. He ain't a soft tosser.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by mzh

Actually, I'm going to put an end to this right now. Quintana, averaging 91.2 MPH, tied for the 10th hardest fastball among all lefty starters in Major League Baseball last year. He ain't a soft tosser.

Worst generalization ever. So because there aren't many fireballing lefthanders in baseball, 91.2 is a fireballer?

Sorry Randy Johnson, Aroldis Chapman, and, well, anyone who's ever thrown consistently between 95-100. Make way for all 91 miles per hour of Jose Quintana. Simply because there's not more of you.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by blandman

Worst generalization ever. So because there aren't many fireballing lefthanders in baseball, 91.2 is a fireballer?

Sorry Randy Johnson, Aroldis Chapman, and, well, anyone who's ever thrown consistently between 95-100. Make way for all 91 miles per hour of Jose Quintana. Simply because there's not more of you.

You don't know the difference between a fire baller and a power pitcher.

When a LH can hit 95, yeah, he throws hard.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

You don't know the difference between a fire baller and a power pitcher.

When a LH can hit 95, yeah, he throws hard.

I know enough to know that when a guy consistently hits 91, guys at the plate don't consider him either of those things. He's not throwing hard, and his fastball's not fast enough to throw for 90% of his pitches. So yeah, neither.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by blandman

I know enough to know that when a guy consistently hits 91, guys at the plate don't consider him either of those things. He's not throwing hard, and his fastball's not fast enough to throw for 90% of his pitches. So yeah, neither.

And he keeps attacking hitters with that fastball and getting guys out. 336 innings of 3.6 era and 7.4 k/9 with average secondary pitches. He has the entire AL fooled I guess. Thank god Munch is on the case.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by TaylorStSox

And he keeps attacking hitters with that fastball and getting guys out. 336 innings of 3.6 era and 7.4 k/9 with average secondary pitches. He has the entire AL fooled I guess. Thank god Munch is on the case.

You're abandoning logic for numbers at face value without any analysis. And you're attaching names to what he's doing that have definitions that don't match up. He's not a power pitcher. Look it up. The prototype is Nolan Ryan. That's insulting to insinuate. And he's not a fireballer. Look the definition up. He's not all high speed fastballs. It's been brought up in the thread he throws fastballs (THREE KINDS, varying in velcoity from as low as 83 on the cutter) at a league average rate, especially when you consider he uses two of them as off-speed offerings and not fastballs at all. You can't count them all as fastballs when his change is faster. Well, you can, but that's why I don't have a problem saying you're way off base. Dudes a deception artist, with multiple pitches and a hidden delivery.

[TaylorStSox]

Originally Posted by blandman

You're abandoning logic for numbers at face value without any analysis. And you're attaching names to what he's doing that have definitions that don't match up. He's not a power pitcher. Look it up. The prototype is Nolan Ryan. That's insulting to insinuate. And he's not a fireballer. Look the definition up. He's not all high speed fastballs. It's been brought up in the thread he throws fastballs (THREE KINDS, varying in velcoity from as low as 83 on the cutter) at a league average rate, especially when you consider he uses two of them as off-speed offerings and not fastballs at all. You can't count them all as fastballs when his change is faster. Well, you can, but that's why I don't have a problem saying you're way off base. Dudes a deception artist, with multiple pitches and a hidden delivery.

Roll your eyes all you want. The kid throws a 95 mph 4 seamer. He attacks the zone. He doesn't rely on off speed pitches. He pitches to contact, yet still gets k's at a solid rate. Batters hit .237 off that fastball. That's a power pitcher. Sorry.