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  #16  
Old 10-01-2013, 11:27 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post

As for offseason moves - they should all be about clearing contracts and bringing in young talent, preferably at the same time.

Dunn's stuck here until the deadline, but someone has to be interested in Danks and Ramirez, with De Aza and Beckham also may be moved since both are getting a salary bump due to arb, and if we want to deal Keppinger, there'd be a bunch of takers.
I assume when you say Danks you mean John. You realize that John Danks has a contract where he is guaranteed about 45M over the next 3 years? Without eating a large about of salary, I think the Sox have a better chance of getting rid of Dunn than Danks and that chance is slim and fat. I wonder if there will be a lot of takers for Keppinger considering he had a bad year and is owed 8.5m but the Sox were able to pawn off Teahen. Ramirez should be able to be dumped because of the position he plays and his offensive stats were not that bad. De Aza and Beckham can be definitely dumped. I dont expect much of a return for all the players mentioned and wonder where and how players are going to be gotten to fill all these holes.
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  #17  
Old 10-01-2013, 04:55 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
I assume when you say Danks you mean John. You realize that John Danks has a contract where he is guaranteed about 45M over the next 3 years? Without eating a large about of salary, I think the Sox have a better chance of getting rid of Dunn than Danks and that chance is slim and fat. I wonder if there will be a lot of takers for Keppinger considering he had a bad year and is owed 8.5m but the Sox were able to pawn off Teahen. Ramirez should be able to be dumped because of the position he plays and his offensive stats were not that bad. De Aza and Beckham can be definitely dumped. I dont expect much of a return for all the players mentioned and wonder where and how players are going to be gotten to fill all these holes.
John Danks is still a good pitcher despite his injury and rehab. Wait until mid-January when the good FA pitchers dry up, and i wouldn't be surprised if Hahn has offers.

Keppinger is only due $4M next year, so IMO his relative inexpensiveness and track record will push his value higher than we expect.
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  #18  
Old 10-01-2013, 05:00 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post

Keppinger is only due $4M next year, so IMO his relative inexpensiveness and track record will push his value higher than we expect.
Cots is showing 4M in 2014 and 4.5M in 2015
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  #19  
Old 10-02-2013, 12:24 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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If you're going by "needs to be on the team" it's a short list, but I don't think the sox are going to replace 22 players.

Should stay- Semien, L Garcia, Beckham, Gillaspie, A Garcia, Viciedo, Jordan Danks, Sale, Quintana, Santiago, Johnson, Reed, Jones

Should go- Konerko(sorry Pauly), Dunn, Keppinger, John Danks, Flowers (keep at AAA as emergency call up at maximum), Axelrod(he'd look good in a Newark Bears uni)

On the fence - Ramirez(I don't think the Sox need to dump his salary per se, depends what who can be acquired), DeAza (maybe should stay as 4th OFer due to his relatively strong left handed bat), Phegley (he hasn't exactly impressed, but "he looks like a ballplayer" to me, maybe he can develop as a backup), the other bullpen arms.
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  #20  
Old 10-02-2013, 12:25 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
... that chance is slim and fat.
What's that mean, 50/50?
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  #21  
Old 10-02-2013, 02:13 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
What's that mean, 50/50?

Slim chance, Fat chance, Slim has a greater possibility than fat. Neither is close to 50/50.
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  #22  
Old 10-02-2013, 04:06 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
If you're going by "needs to be on the team" it's a short list, but I don't think the sox are going to replace 22 players.

Should stay- Semien, L Garcia, Beckham, Gillaspie, A Garcia, Viciedo, Jordan Danks, Sale, Quintana, Santiago, Johnson, Reed, Jones

Should go- Konerko(sorry Pauly), Dunn, Keppinger, John Danks, Flowers (keep at AAA as emergency call up at maximum), Axelrod(he'd look good in a Newark Bears uni)

On the fence - Ramirez(I don't think the Sox need to dump his salary per se, depends what who can be acquired), DeAza (maybe should stay as 4th OFer due to his relatively strong left handed bat), Phegley (he hasn't exactly impressed, but "he looks like a ballplayer" to me, maybe he can develop as a backup), the other bullpen arms.
Danks and Keppinger can't be moved. Dunn might have value at the deadline and is still one of the most productive players on the team. ADA probably has real value. You don't make him a 4th OF. If you don't want him, you move him. Ramirez and Beckham can go. Beckham is terrible and Ramirez won't be here next time we compete anyway. I still like Flowers more than Phegley, but both are probably garbage. I agree on everyone else.

If it was me, I'd move Ramirez and Beckham and see what you have with Semien and Garcia. I'm into total rebuild mode though. I'd even entertain deals for Sale and Quintana. If I'm overwhelmed, they're gone.
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  #23  
Old 10-03-2013, 03:31 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Slim chance, Fat chance, Slim has a greater possibility than fat. Neither is close to 50/50.
That's the problem with mixed metaphors.
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  #24  
Old 10-03-2013, 03:33 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
. ADA probably has real value. You don't make him a 4th OF. If you don't want him, you move him.
Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a fourth outfielder with real value. If Dunn and Konerko are gone, there would be plenty of potential at bats for the fourth outfielder.

As for Dunn being one of the most productive players on this team, that is irrelevant as this team sucks. The whole point is a better team in the long run, obviously there is no room for Dunn in that plan.

Under my scenerio, you could see what you have with Semien, Leury and the other infield prospects as well. Between the five positions in which you could move the infielders there would be a potential of 810 starts, which could mean 100 starts each for eight players. I would advocate signing a first baseman and leaving DH open. Give him 150 starts between first and DH, that leaves 660 starts which could translate to 110 starts for six players.

Basically, I would have A. Garcia and the firstbasemen penciled in for 150 starts. Other than that, the play at other positions should be divided by players based on who executes(if Garcia can't execute he shouldn't get the time either, I just don't feel like he is going to fail). This way we can see what we've got without anyone being blocked, a healthy competition. Personally, I think Beckham could make a quality utilityman provided we have the players to outperform him at all the infield positions. I don't think the Sox should be handing playing time to anyone at this point.

You're probably right about Danks, though, he'll be next to impossible to unload. Dunn and Keppinger should be cut if need be, their presence on the roster is not going to help the Sox turn it around in anyway. If the effective Sox payroll is 20 million less next year and 4.5 the year after that because of it, so be it.

Last edited by TheVulture; 10-03-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-03-2013, 06:38 PM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a fourth outfielder with real value. If Dunn and Konerko are gone, there would be plenty of potential at bats for the fourth outfielder.

As for Dunn being one of the most productive players on this team, that is irrelevant as this team sucks. The whole point is a better team in the long run, obviously there is no room for Dunn in that plan.

Under my scenerio, you could see what you have with Semien, Leury and the other infield prospects as well. Between the five positions in which you could move the infielders there would be a potential of 810 starts, which could mean 100 starts each for eight players. I would advocate signing a first baseman and leaving DH open. Give him 150 starts between first and DH, that leaves 660 starts which could translate to 110 starts for six players.

Basically, I would have A. Garcia and the firstbasemen penciled in for 150 starts. Other than that, the play at other positions should be divided by players based on who executes(if Garcia can't execute he shouldn't get the time either, I just don't feel like he is going to fail). This way we can see what we've got without anyone being blocked, a healthy competition. Personally, I think Beckham could make a quality utilityman provided we have the players to outperform him at all the infield positions. I don't think the Sox should be handing playing time to anyone at this point.

You're probably right about Danks, though, he'll be next to impossible to unload. Dunn and Keppinger should be cut if need be, their presence on the roster is not going to help the Sox turn it around in anyway. If the effective Sox payroll is 20 million less next year and 4.5 the year after that because of it, so be it.
You basically want to take our best prospects and play them half the time, use the only OF with value as a backup, cut your most productive offensive player just for the hell of it and hang on to a utility player that has no value... just because. I'm not seeing very much logic in any of that.
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  #26  
Old 10-04-2013, 01:41 AM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
You basically want to take our best prospects and play them half the time, use the only OF with value as a backup, cut your most productive offensive player just for the hell of it and hang on to a utility player that has no value... just because. I'm not seeing very much logic in any of that.
The only OF of value isn't Garcia? I mean if there's only one...
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  #27  
Old 10-04-2013, 10:17 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
The only OF of value isn't Garcia? I mean if there's only one...
Players that will actually be moved.
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  #28  
Old 10-04-2013, 12:44 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
Danks and Keppinger can't be moved. Dunn might have value at the deadline and is still one of the most productive players on the team. ADA probably has real value. You don't make him a 4th OF.
I'm not sure what value he has, but I think we could get an average outfielder in return for him. ADA actually walks some. I want him out strictly because we need to change the culture and I think the mental clowns, like ADA (and Ramirez and Dunn), need to leave to make that happen. But I think he's a pretty good player and I hope other teams think so too.
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