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  #151  
Old 09-27-2013, 08:51 PM
ZombieRob ZombieRob is offline
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This organization is ****ing sad.
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  #152  
Old 09-27-2013, 11:30 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
Have you checked out the Sox roster? Seriously. Putting losses on the manager would be like saying the reason Konerko is slow is he wasn't taught the proper way to run. I don't believe they way you are judging him on wins and losses, when several people thought the Sox would step back and they have unloaded some talent from their roster, is the way you would like to be judged in real life. If they guy had a stacked roster and this was happening, fine. But its not and you know it.

Besides, he gets another year of experience under his belt. That means he is only going to get better. I read experience is the key right on this board.i do like that you used the Pythagorean number. Joe Maddon was minus 4 his first year at TB. Minus 1 the next year, yet people here want the guy who stands next to him and is more quiet than Robin to manage the Sox. Unless you are Phil Rogers, using that number to judge a manager is silly, especially of a 95 plus loss team.
Nah, 2 years is certainly enough to get a feel for a manager. I just cannot understand why you want to absolve him of all blame like the manager position does not effect the play on the field . The degree to which he is responsible is debatable but what is not is he certainly is at least partly responsible for this disaster, he is after all the leader of the team. When you say it is unfair to judge on wins and losses , stacked roster or no, that makes no sense. All managers and coaches are judged by wins and losses, and this team , as badly constructed as it was, should have played much better and yes part of that is the managers fault.

Last edited by mahagga73; 09-27-2013 at 11:37 PM.
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  #153  
Old 09-27-2013, 11:53 PM
ZombieRob ZombieRob is offline
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Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
Nah, 2 years is certainly enough to get a feel for a manager. I just cannot understand why you want to absolve him of all blame like the manager position does not effect the play on the field . The degree to which he is responsible is debatable but what is not is he certainly is at least partly responsible for this disaster, he is after all the leader of the team. When you say it is unfair to judge on wins and losses , stacked roster or no, that makes no sense. All managers and coaches are judged by wins and losses, and this team , as badly constructed as it was, should have played much better and yes part of that is the managers fault.
I agree. This team is bad, but not bad by itself to lose a around a 100 games. The example I use the most is this. Ok he benched Rios, good move. But, why wait so long? There was plenty of lazy all around on this team prior to that. From De Aza to Ramirez to Viciedo loafing in left. Talking out the hot batter the day after a big night and put in 200 hitter. Letting Konerko bat 3rd out of respect or something. Dunn in the 4 hole. Not giving Garcia a chance to bat 3.
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  #154  
Old 09-28-2013, 01:10 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Yea, fire those coaches. They're the ones that intentionally walked Chris Getz.
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  #155  
Old 09-28-2013, 08:40 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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I've been to the last 2 games and this White Sox team has performed in these games the same way they have performed the entire season. THIS TEAM CAN'T HIT. Compare this team man for man against the Royals and its obvious we don't belong on the same field with them. That being said if we lose the final 2 games against the Royals we will have lost 100 games. Last year after the Cubs lost 100 games they brought back there manager. Has any other team lost 100 games and brought back there manager? The last 15 games of the 2012 season turned out to be a flop for the White Sox. This 2013 White Sox team has been a continuation of the final 2012 15 games. Obviously some changes are in order this off season, hopefully replacing Ventura will be one of them.
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  #156  
Old 09-28-2013, 10:08 AM
white sox bill white sox bill is offline
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The big picture....what if 2012 and 2013 were reversed despite the gagging last 2 wks of las yr? Would we be calling for Robins head?

So one pretty good yr and one bad yr, its a wash. Can we afford a 3rd yr tie breaker??? JR is historically slow in firing people, esp ones he likes. So right or wrong, Robin will likely be back next yr unless he comes to his senses and would rather be back in his lovely California home.....
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  #157  
Old 09-28-2013, 11:21 AM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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Holy ****, his expectations are lower than ours.
I don't know what people expect him to say. He's not going to tell the media that this coach or that coach has done a poor job.

As I've always said, judge them on what they do, not what they say. I'm sure there will be a coach or two relieved of his duties on Monday, and that's when we'll find out who they feel hasn't been effective in their position.
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  #158  
Old 09-28-2013, 11:40 AM
amsteel amsteel is offline
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I don't know what people expect him to say. He's not going to tell the media that this coach or that coach has done a poor job.
He won't throw anyone under the bus, but saying he's pleased with any facet of this year sure sends an odd message.
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  #159  
Old 09-28-2013, 02:34 PM
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RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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Hahn is on record saying he will bring Ventura back for next year. With that being said I guess will just have to wait and see what changes will be made overall. I for one hope to see DeAza, Ramirez, Axelrod, Dunn, Jordan Danks, and a good portion of their bullpen gone and see a younger more exciting team on the field. One that can field and run the base's at a major League level and be much more prepared day in and day out.
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  #160  
Old 09-28-2013, 05:03 PM
getonbckthr getonbckthr is offline
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My problem with Robin is how bad basic fundamentals have gotten from last year to this year with most of the same guys. That can be put on the manager.
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  #161  
Old 09-29-2013, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by amsteel View Post
He won't throw anyone under the bus, but saying he's pleased with any facet of this year sure sends an odd message.
A message to who? The fact of the matter is managers don't say much of anything in the press these days. Mostly, these guys give bland answers that are designed to avoid controversy. There's no reason to read into or believe anything the manager say to the reporters.
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  #162  
Old 09-30-2013, 11:32 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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From this thread, I have learned that the following people were basically useless and had little - actually nothing - to do with the performance of their teams:

Name Wins Losses Pct. 1 Connie Mack 3,731 3,948 .486 2 John McGraw 2,763 1,948 .586 3 Tony La Russa 2,728 2,365 .536 4 Bobby Cox 2,504 2,001 .556 5 Joe Torre 2,326 1,997 .538 6 Sparky Anderson 2,194 1,834 .545 7 Bucky Harris 2,158 2,219 .493 8 Joe McCarthy 2,125 1,333 .615 9 Walter Alston 2,040 1,613 .558 10 Leo Durocher 2,008 1,709 .540 11 Casey Stengel

Someone may call this hyperbole, but go back and read the posts. It's not. How nine of them are in the HOF is just mind boggling, apparently.
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  #163  
Old 09-30-2013, 12:18 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
From this thread, I have learned that the following people were basically useless and had little - actually nothing - to do with the performance of their teams:

Name Wins Losses Pct. 1 Connie Mack 3,731 3,948 .486 2 John McGraw 2,763 1,948 .586 3 Tony La Russa 2,728 2,365 .536 4 Bobby Cox 2,504 2,001 .556 5 Joe Torre 2,326 1,997 .538 6 Sparky Anderson 2,194 1,834 .545 7 Bucky Harris 2,158 2,219 .493 8 Joe McCarthy 2,125 1,333 .615 9 Walter Alston 2,040 1,613 .558 10 Leo Durocher 2,008 1,709 .540 11 Casey Stengel

Someone may call this hyperbole, but go back and read the posts. It's not. How nine of them are in the HOF is just mind boggling, apparently.
If it is a manager's fault a team went from leading the league in fielding to being in last place in fielding, and it has been pointed out the Sox doing it was the first time in almost 100 years it happened, the last team that did it was managed by Connie Mack, so he must be an awful manager.

Look at the career records of the managers in the HOF, and name one that didn't have some tough seasons. Then look at the Sox roster and explain how anyone could judge how good a manager is by this particular team's record. None of the guys on your list would have managed this team to contention.
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  #164  
Old 09-30-2013, 12:34 PM
PatK PatK is offline
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The decisions this organization has made lately seem like they are trying to test my support. They're losing it.

I wish they would at least make one solid attempt to make a run and a big name manager or one with experience instead of showing "loyalty" or going on the cheap.

At this point, I'd rather have Bevington managing than Robin. At least you could look at his stupidity as some kind of comedic relief.
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  #165  
Old 09-30-2013, 12:40 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
If it is a manager's fault a team went from leading the league in fielding to being in last place in fielding, and it has been pointed out the Sox doing it was the first time in almost 100 years it happened, the last team that did it was managed by Connie Mack, so he must be an awful manager.

Look at the career records of the managers in the HOF, and name one that didn't have some tough seasons. Then look at the Sox roster and explain how anyone could judge how good a manager is by this particular team's record. None of the guys on your list would have managed this team to contention.
That is a decent argument, but you have basically stated in other posts that a manager has *zero* (or at least next to nothing) to do with a team's performance. Hey, why even have one, then?

I do not think that is a position you can defend.

Oh, the Cubs fired Sveum today. Wow, what morons. I mean, he had a bad roster, so what was the basis for firing him?

Find me one reason Sveum should be gone and Ventura retained. At least the Cubs basically admitted they were tanking the season, so really, you would have a better argument as it related to Sveum.

Last edited by kittle42; 09-30-2013 at 12:48 PM.
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