White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
Congratulations on the Rookie records for HR and RBI in April, Jose!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 09-21-2013, 08:51 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,161
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
And the non experienced manager had the team in first place most of last season with a roster full of players this board constantly say sucks.

Or as Jim Boutin said in Ball Four: "I had a no-hitter going until the big kids go out of school." Unfortunately when they collapsed last September they didn't even make the wild-card. Now the bigger question is Why are they so bad this year if Robin kept them competitive last year? Did the overall team all of a sudden get really bad, was last year a fluke or has the coaching staff had a negative effect on the players as they spend more time with them.

FWIW---I only see the White Sox on a limited basis living in New England. But they were awful in the recent 3 game series they played in Boston. Dennis Eckersley did the color for Boston that series. He said the White Sox were terrible at fundamentals. They certainly had a bad series with dropped fly-balls, mental errors missing cutoffs etc.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 09-21-2013, 09:18 AM
amsteel amsteel is online now
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
And the non experienced manager had the team in first place most of last season with a roster full of players this board constantly say sucks.
And has had them in last place for last 6 while playing the worst fundamental baseball many posters on this board have seen.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 09-21-2013, 09:27 AM
amsteel amsteel is online now
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Since when have the Sox ever cared about experience when hiring a manager?
Since 1979 when every non interim manager has managed/coached at some level of the ML system before being named Sox skipper.
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 09-21-2013, 12:49 PM
JB98's Avatar
JB98 JB98 is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Crystal Lake, IL
Posts: 27,465
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amsteel View Post
Since 1979 when every non interim manager has managed/coached at some level of the ML system before being named Sox skipper.
And Ventura played how many seasons in the big leagues? Let's not pretend he hasn't been around the game long enough to know what's going on.

The main problem I have with Ventura is his management of the pitching staff. Several folks around here have assured me that Cooper is really the one pulling the strings with the pitchers anyway, and he has plenty of experience. So maybe I should be directing my criticisms toward the pitching coach.

I know, I know. People need a head. Maybe I should just bow out of this discussion. But I just think it is criminally stupid to believe Ventura was hired as a marketing ploy to placate fans. If you believe that, you also have to believe the Sox felt they had no chance to contend either last year or this year. I completely disagree with that. I think they felt they could win coming into last year, and frankly, they should have won. I think they felt they could win coming into this year, and obviously, they were wrong. Now, they are quite rightfully changing course.
__________________
JB's attendance record:
2004: 14-5; 2005: 16-8; 2006: 19-10; 2007: 8-12; 2008: 15-7; 2009: 6-13; 2010: 12-11; 2011: 9-8; 2012: 11-7; 2013: 8-9; 2014: 7-9; Total: 125-99.
Next game: April 2015

R
ead my new baseball blog: http://thebaseballkid98.blogspot.com/

Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 09-21-2013, 01:33 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southside
Posts: 14,356
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
And Ventura played how many seasons in the big leagues? Let's not pretend he hasn't been around the game long enough to know what's going on.

The main problem I have with Ventura is his management of the pitching staff. Several folks around here have assured me that Cooper is really the one pulling the strings with the pitchers anyway, and he has plenty of experience. So maybe I should be directing my criticisms toward the pitching coach.

I know, I know. People need a head. Maybe I should just bow out of this discussion. But I just think it is criminally stupid to believe Ventura was hired as a marketing ploy to placate fans. If you believe that, you also have to believe the Sox felt they had no chance to contend either last year or this year. I completely disagree with that. I think they felt they could win coming into last year, and frankly, they should have won. I think they felt they could win coming into this year, and obviously, they were wrong. Now, they are quite rightfully changing course.
I don't think they did believe they had a chance to contend in 2012. When you look at where that team was in 2011, they had Adam Dunn coming off of a historically awful season, Rios was abysmal and Peavy was a year removed from unprecendted surgery and one of their best pitchers was leaving. They needed all of those guys to bounce back (and AJ too who had a bad 2011), there was no reason to believe that that would happen, all they could do was hope for the best and that maybe they'd catch lightening in a bottle (which has been Kenny's MO for the past couple of years).

If they had any intention of contending I don't think that they would have hired a manager whose only coaching experience was in high school. Yes Robin had years of experience as a player but there is a big difference between that and managing. Even the ads during the off season that year featured Ventura's grandslam against the Rangers in 1991 trying to rekindle good feelings. I think the White Sox surprised themselves by contending last year and Ventura's complete lack of experience really showed itself in September last year.
__________________

Go Sox!!!
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 09-21-2013, 02:56 PM
tstrike2000 tstrike2000 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 'Burbs
Posts: 6,077
Default

I, also, don't believe in a million years that the reason Ventura was hired was because KW believed that the team wasn't going to be competitive in '12, so he hired a level headed fan favorite to handle the bumpy roads with grace. This is like conspiracy theory garbage, IMO. And, in the event I'm wrong and that is the reason KW hired Ventura, than he can go **** himself.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 09-21-2013, 03:37 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,919
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I don't think they did believe they had a chance to contend in 2012. When you look at where that team was in 2011, they had Adam Dunn coming off of a historically awful season, Rios was abysmal and Peavy was a year removed from unprecendted surgery and one of their best pitchers was leaving. They needed all of those guys to bounce back (and AJ too who had a bad 2011), there was no reason to believe that that would happen, all they could do was hope for the best and that maybe they'd catch lightening in a bottle (which has been Kenny's MO for the past couple of years).

If they had any intention of contending I don't think that they would have hired a manager whose only coaching experience was in high school. Yes Robin had years of experience as a player but there is a big difference between that and managing. Even the ads during the off season that year featured Ventura's grandslam against the Rangers in 1991 trying to rekindle good feelings. I think the White Sox surprised themselves by contending last year and Ventura's complete lack of experience really showed itself in September last year.
Or maybe in September, Paulie was a shell of his former self, Dunn was injured, Youkilis was injured, Quintana and Sale were at innings totalsthey had never been.
And again, considering your lack of experience, how are you qualified to say he did anything wrong?

Doesn't playing in the major leagues 15 years in the 3 biggest markets, being a team leader wherever he went count as experience? I find it hard to beleive you can learn a ton more coaching first base than playing in the games. It wasn't like Robin was a dumb player.


The fact is for those who think Ventura's hiring was a publicity stunt, thatt he Sox figured they couldn't contend. You are actually making the case that this precious experience you all seem to think is necessary, is not necessary as the team not supposed to contend, contended.
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 09-21-2013, 05:37 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,787
Default

Apart from bringing in a manager with no experience, they brought up a bunch of kids. The only good veteran they acquired was a reliever (Crain). And they brought in Hudson, Fukudome, Wise, & Keppinger.

This is not acting like a contender.

They never thought they would contend in 2012. They got a bounce from replacing Ozzie. It faded.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 09-21-2013, 07:03 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southside
Posts: 14,356
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
Or maybe in September, Paulie was a shell of his former self, Dunn was injured, Youkilis was injured, Quintana and Sale were at innings totalsthey had never been.
And again, considering your lack of experience, how are you qualified to say he did anything wrong?

Doesn't playing in the major leagues 15 years in the 3 biggest markets, being a team leader wherever he went count as experience? I find it hard to beleive you can learn a ton more coaching first base than playing in the games. It wasn't like Robin was a dumb player.


The fact is for those who think Ventura's hiring was a publicity stunt, thatt he Sox figured they couldn't contend. You are actually making the case that this precious experience you all seem to think is necessary, is not necessary as the team not supposed to contend, contended.
Unless he was positioning players and changing players when he was on those teams then, no. It doesn't really add to the coaching experience. And as for him being a leader on those teams he played on, I mean, he was a veteran but he was not a leader on any of those teams in the same way that Konerko is a leader in the clubhouse currently. Maybe he was on the 1998 White Sox since Frank was so surly but I don't think he was ever considered a leadership guy in the clubhouse.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 09-21-2013, 09:56 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Deep in the heart of Dixie
Posts: 4,407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
They never thought they would contend in 2012. They got a bounce from replacing Ozzie. It faded.
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out why they pancaked last September and then topped that off this season by playing the worst baseball of any White Sox team in over 40 years. With brevity I think you have hit the nail on the head.
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 09-21-2013, 09:57 PM
slavko slavko is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: North Suburban
Posts: 5,401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out why they pancaked last September and then topped that off this season by playing the worst baseball of any White Sox team in over 40 years. With brevity I think you have hit the nail on the head.
Best non-conspiratorial explanation I have seen.
__________________
Ya Ta Hey, Black Crow.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:42 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,161
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
And Ventura played how many seasons in the big leagues? Let's not pretend he hasn't been around the game long enough to know what's going on.
So with your logic, a Wal-Mart greeter with 20 years experience should be able to manage the Store. Robin may have spent plenty of time as a manager but that does not make him a manager. His ability to lead is the question. Most if not all of us have no clue if he has the leadership qualiities.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:24 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,919
Default

With your logic. Tiger Woods couldnt help you with your golf swing.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:37 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 12,930
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out why they pancaked last September and then topped that off this season by playing the worst baseball of any White Sox team in over 40 years. With brevity I think you have hit the nail on the head.
Dunn and Konerko slumped some last September, and it continued. This year, We lost .200 OPS points at 3B (Youkalis to Keppinger; 100 Youkalis to Gillaspie) and probably 300 at catcher. Throw in bad defense and there you go.
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:51 AM
SOXSINCE'70 SOXSINCE'70 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: DEERFIELD
Posts: 5,009
Icon9

You can't expect Robin Ventura to "go to war" with a pop gun's ammo.
Rick Hahn needs to fix the bullpen,find some quality hitters,and let's see SOME improvement in 2014. PLEASE!!
__________________
White Sox baseball - JUST WIN,BABY!!

Last edited by SOXSINCE'70; 09-22-2013 at 12:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:47 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.