White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
Congratulations on the Rookie records for HR and RBI in April, Jose!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:26 PM
amsteel amsteel is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,097
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
Besides people complaining on a message board who aren't there, has anyone ever indicated Robin doesn't give a ****?

Its amazing how many people think everyone in charge has to be like Ditka. If you had a boss like Ditka, would that make you better?
When did I say he doesn't give a ****? He has the personality of a shoe box. Showing some fire at any point outside of getting the boot (and he barely does that) would be nice for players and fans.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:30 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,903
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amsteel View Post
When did I say he doesn't give a ****? He has the personality of a shoe box. Showing some fire at any point outside of getting the boot (and he barely does that) would be nice for players and fans.
So being something that he is not is what he should do. The players seem to like him. The stuff for fans isn't his department.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:35 PM
amsteel amsteel is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,097
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
So being something that he is not is what he should do. The players seem to like him. The stuff for fans isn't his department.
How do we know that? Because some whitesox.com beat reporter wrote an article about how much the players like him? Players will never tell any reporter any sliver of truth.

Please, we know as much about the players' thoughts on him as we do about his passion for the job.

And if it's not his department to be the face of the franchise to the fans who is?
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:36 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,903
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
None of you seem to be able to explain how, by this reasoning, managers do not matter one lick, and if that is so, why teams ever care who the manager is.
You haven't shown a manager makes a huge difference. Take Mattingly. He almost was canned when the Dodgers were in last. He wasn't and they went crazy. If he was fired, and the Dodgers got hot, it would be used as proof the manager makes all the difference in the world. But they kept him and they started winning and winning. Was he dumb and just got smart? It's the players that matter.as long as you have the team's respect, or if he just refuses to conform to team policy, firing a manager is the proverbial putting lipstick on a pig.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:36 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 7,109
Default

This is a team that went into free fall and it has very little talent. No coaching staff could have stopped this. The main responsibility of the this manager is to handle the media. Ventura has done well with this. The coaching now a days is what runs the club, this isnt the 60's when a team had a manger and 3 coaches, this team currently has 8 plus the manager. I bet Ventura didnt choose any of his coaching staff, this was done from above. If people want to beat on Ventura for not being a good administrator of the staff he was given, that's fine, but dont blame him for much more.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:41 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,903
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amsteel View Post
How do we know that? Because some whitesox.com beat reporter wrote an article about how much the players like him? Players will never tell any reporting any sliver of truth.

Please, we know as much about the players' thoughts on him as we do about his passion for the job.

And if it's not his department to be the face of the franchise to the fans who is?
No player past or present has anything bad to say about him. They have even mentioned Robin gets tough on them in private. He doesn't air the dirty laundry in public, somrthing he probably learned as a player under several managers with several different styles.

If you want to judge him on this year with the players he had to put in the line up, and say he sucks fine. The problem is everyone you would want to replace him with would be in the same situation. The players have to change, not the manager.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:42 PM
amsteel amsteel is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,097
Default

Actually it's super obvious what the problem is: the Sox are 92-125 since trading Eduardo Escobar.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:48 PM
amsteel amsteel is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,097
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
If you want to judge him on this year with the players he had to put in the line up, and say he sucks fine. The problem is everyone you would want to replace him with would be in the same situation. The players have to change, not the manager.
That's fair, but if there was someone else at the helm that's had major league success (or experience for that matter) there'd a be more patience and more (any) hope for next year.

Also it's frustrating to know that Ventura won't be the manager in 2015 but he'll be awarded a token role in the organization.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 09-18-2013, 06:57 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 7,109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amsteel View Post

Also it's frustrating to know that Ventura won't be the manager in 2015 but he'll be awarded a token role in the organization.

Who cares if he is given and chooses to take a token role in the organization. The guy is a good guy and has been a class act throughout his playing and managing days with the Sox. Thats the type of guy an organization should want up and center.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 09-18-2013, 08:32 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Evanston
Posts: 28,713
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Who cares if he is given and chooses to take a token role in the organization. The guy is a good guy and has been a class act throughout his playing and managing days with the Sox. Thats the type of guy an organization should want up and center.
Well, the Blackhawks still employ Denis Savard in some role. Like Robin, he's seen as a class act who should remain in the organization in some role. Like Savard, I suspect when things start to matter with a team that can contend, Robin will be removed from his role as head coach. Right now, that doesn't matter as much. Maybe it won't matter in 2014, either.
__________________
Attendance records:
09 : 3-2.
10 : 2-3.
11: 0-1.
12: 2-1.
14: 1-2.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 09-19-2013, 11:40 AM
BNLSox BNLSox is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 802
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amsteel View Post
Actually it's super obvious what the problem is: the Sox are 92-125 since trading Eduardo Escobar.
__________________
Thanks for 2005! We will never forget the magic!!!
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 09-19-2013, 12:30 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Antioch, IL
Posts: 5,493
Default

If his name wasn't Robin Ventura it wouldn't even be up for debate- he'd be fired the day after the season ended.

It's a horrible team- but he has shown no evidence (starting last September) that he's a legitimate major league manager and that (at a minimum) he can get his team to play solid fundamental baseball with any kind of energy.

For me- he's in Terry Bevington/Larry Doby/Paul Richards ('76) territory as a manager.

If he's back- along with Dunn for 2014- the White Sox will be back to 1988-89 or 1998-1999 in terms of attendance, etc.

The current vintage of the White Sox is the biggest test of my fan loyalty that I can remember- I hate the Cubs and Brewers are pretty "blah"- so I stay- but from the major league roster and manager to the stadium operation and customer service to the marketing and announcers- this franchise is a complete wreck.
__________________
TomBradley72
http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/334c0314
2014 Record: 2-3
2005-2013 Record: 49-38
MLB Parks Visited: 24, MiLB Parks Visited: 11
"When I heard the National Anthem it hit me," Jose Abreu said through White Sox spokesperson Lou Hernandez. "I love the Anthem. When I learn English Iím going to sing it."
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 09-19-2013, 02:51 PM
amsteel amsteel is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,097
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
If his name wasn't Robin Ventura it wouldn't even be up for debate- he'd be fired the day after the season ended.
Bingo. He was hired as a marketing tool, not to manage the team.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 09-19-2013, 02:57 PM
gobears1987 gobears1987 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: From the Mideast to the Midwest
Posts: 12,756
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amsteel View Post
Bingo. He was hired as a marketing tool, not to manage the team.
Most high school coaches I've met have higher credentials to manage this team.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 09-19-2013, 03:02 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,903
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
If his name wasn't Robin Ventura it wouldn't even be up for debate- he'd be fired the day after the season ended.

It's a horrible team- but he has shown no evidence (starting last September) that he's a legitimate major league manager and that (at a minimum) he can get his team to play solid fundamental baseball with any kind of energy.

For me- he's in Terry Bevington/Larry Doby/Paul Richards ('76) territory as a manager.

If he's back- along with Dunn for 2014- the White Sox will be back to 1988-89 or 1998-1999 in terms of attendance, etc.

The current vintage of the White Sox is the biggest test of my fan loyalty that I can remember- I hate the Cubs and Brewers are pretty "blah"- so I stay- but from the major league roster and manager to the stadium operation and customer service to the marketing and announcers- this franchise is a complete wreck.
Wasn't he the manager from April-September last year? If it's his fault they didn't play well, wouldn't it be his fault they exceeded expections? To me, you are cherry-picking. You only count when the team is bad, and ignore they were in first place last season with a roster that many thought was short.

It's short now, and to complain that it is his fault they are losing after trading Peavy and Rios and Crain and Thornton, is ridiculous. Paulie has been beat up and a shell of his former self. What manager would be getting wins out of this roster right now? Just name one.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:31 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.