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  #1  
Old 09-10-2013, 06:02 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Default Crain--Lost In The Shuffle

I guess the Jesse Crain trade will turn out to be a lost cause. He is still on the DL as the season winds down.
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  #2  
Old 09-10-2013, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
I guess the Jesse Crain trade will turn out to be a lost cause. He is still on the DL as the season winds down.
We'll have to wait and see about that. What if Tampa Bay bring him back in the last week of the season and places him on the playoff roster? Crain could be very valuable in the wild card play in game and in the playoffs after that if the Rays advance.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:05 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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It's too bad Ventura pitched him into the ground after it was clear Crain would be most valuable to us in a trade.
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  #4  
Old 09-10-2013, 11:24 PM
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It's too bad Ventura pitched him into the ground after it was clear Crain would be most valuable to us in a trade.
If the way Crain was used was pitching him into the ground, he had no value as a reliever. He was used the way you expect to use a $4.5 million reliever. Any manager would have used Crain the way Ventura used Crain.

Crain was injured last year. He was injured at the start of this season. If he had been used sparingly after coming back this season, he would not have had any trade value because it would have appeared he wasn't ready to do what a front-line major league reliever has to do. Relief pitchers who don't pitch when they are needed are worthless.
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  #5  
Old 09-10-2013, 11:28 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Any manager would have used Crain the way Ventura used Crain.
Yeah, okay.
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  #6  
Old 09-10-2013, 11:30 PM
amsteel amsteel is offline
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This is a deal in which the Sox had absolutly no control over their return.

I realize it was a salary dump, but still. This one was a stinker from the get go.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:47 AM
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Yeah, okay.
Show me a team that pays a middle reliever $4.5 million and doesn't use him.
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  #8  
Old 09-11-2013, 10:15 AM
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Show me a team that pays a middle reliever $4.5 million and doesn't use him.
More so with the troubles the bullpen has had since he and Thornton left. They clearly were about all that was worth using in the bullpen...
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Yeah, okay.
It's a chicken and egg kind of question, would Crain have become one of our more valuable trading chips if the Sox hadn't used him the way they had? I don't know exactly what players Tampa Bay had offered to send us had he come back to form, but veteran relief pitchers don't have the most stable track record from year to year.
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:26 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Yeah, okay.
So, after some 5 minutes of research -

Two other pitchers who are used very often, and their numbers v. Crain through June 29, when Crain pitched his last game:

Crain 38 G, 36.2 INN
Clippard 34 G, 33.2 INN
Gregerson 37G 35.2 INN

So there are at least a few other managers who would have used a workhorse MR as a workhorse, and those were literally the first two off the top of my head.

If one wants to make assertions as fact, one should find support. It takes minutes.
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:22 PM
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Even if Crain was healthy at the trade deadline, no team was going to give the Sox a bounty of prospects for two or three months of Jesse Crain. The deal is still a win for the Sox because Tampa Bay is paying Crain to not pitch, while the Sox are not.
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  #12  
Old 09-11-2013, 02:48 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Even if Crain was healthy at the trade deadline, no team was going to give the Sox a bounty of prospects for two or three months of Jesse Crain. The deal is still a win for the Sox because Tampa Bay is paying Crain to not pitch, while the Sox are not.

I think it is a loss for both teams. Tampa lost the money and a reliever and the Sox lost the chance at getting a decent prospect as part of their rebuild.
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:10 PM
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I think it is a loss for both teams. Tampa lost the money and a reliever and the Sox lost the chance at getting a decent prospect as part of their rebuild.
Again, you typically don't get much in return when you trade a setup reliever with an expiring contract. Usually just a B prospect. The money saved was going to be the most valuable thing for the Sox out of that trade no matter what.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:14 PM
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I think it is a loss for both teams. Tampa lost the money and a reliever and the Sox lost the chance at getting a decent prospect as part of their rebuild.
There wasn't much trade value in Crain midseason because he is a non-closing relief pitcher. What he was doing, he was doing very well, but if scouts questioned why he wasn't pitching in situations where they would expect him to at be used, his value would have been less.

I watch A's games because I get those games, and Sean Doolittle and Ryan Cook seemed to be in the high 30s in innings pitched through June as well. And neither was as effective as Crain. If Crain were on the A's instead of Cook (unrealistic because Billy Beane doesn't believe in high salaries for relievers), I don't believe he wouldn't have been used any differently than he was with the White Sox.
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  #15  
Old 09-11-2013, 07:08 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
So, after some 5 minutes of research -

Two other pitchers who are used very often, and their numbers v. Crain through June 29, when Crain pitched his last game:

Crain 38 G, 36.2 INN
Clippard 34 G, 33.2 INN
Gregerson 37G 35.2 INN

So there are at least a few other managers who would have used a workhorse MR as a workhorse, and those were literally the first two off the top of my head.

If one wants to make assertions as fact, one should find support. It takes minutes.
Crain has a history of fragile health. To pitch him as if that wasn't so was mindless.
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