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  #16  
Old 08-27-2013, 08:56 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
There is nothing wrong with a young closer pitching in situations in which he will have to pitch in the future, especially considering the stretches this season when he didn't have the opportunity to pitch in save situations or with a tie in the ninth or later.

It isn't like Jones can take his place occasionally because he has been needed in most of the games where Reed has pitched. And Thornton was traded by popular demand.
Really? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, do you seriously think that Rick Hahn traded Thornton because Sox fans/posters on WSI demanded it.

I have plenty of criticisms of Sox management, but thinking that they make trades based on the Chris Rongey phone lines isn't one of them.

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Originally Posted by SOXBOY View Post
The Sox have played good ball lately but it's games like this that remind us that the true prize is not to win 70 but get a top 3 draft pick.
We were gaining on a surprising number of teams. The Flubs are only a 1/2 game ahead of us.
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  #17  
Old 08-27-2013, 09:51 AM
delben91 delben91 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
I realize he has no one else to pitch...but tough. Pitch them anyway. Rienzo should have been pulled earlier too...doesn't really matter I guess, and it's an obvious effect of nothing in the pen past Jones and Reed.
And it's highly doubtful there will be a situation in which Reed must throw 8/11 games, 6 games in a row at one point, and the set-up guy 5/6. After all, I would think that other teams, especially teams in contention, would pitch their relievers like this if it was so necessary. But they don't. But Ventura insists on it, with a team out of contention. The front office needs to wake up.
Rienzo went 6 innings and threw 98 pitches and should've been pulled earlier? So what, we should limit all starters to 5IP/75 pitches whichever comes first and just yank them like it's little league?
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  #18  
Old 08-27-2013, 10:25 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by delben91 View Post
Rienzo went 6 innings and threw 98 pitches and should've been pulled earlier? So what, we should limit all starters to 5IP/75 pitches whichever comes first and just yank them like it's little league?
Both managers botched pitcher management.

But either team could have won this one, lots of mistakes on both sides.

Still, a fun game to be at, even if the Cell was deserted.
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  #19  
Old 08-27-2013, 01:26 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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The trade may have been by "popular demand" but it was both stupid and shortsighted.
That's crazy. IMO, the Sox actually held on to Thornton for too long, probably because they didn't have a reasonable replacement within their organization. Matt was a good reliever for several seasons, but he's at the end of his career now. He wasn't worth the money he was making, and it was past time to cut ties.
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  #20  
Old 08-27-2013, 03:52 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by delben91 View Post
Rienzo went 6 innings and threw 98 pitches and should've been pulled earlier? So what, we should limit all starters to 5IP/75 pitches whichever comes first and just yank them like it's little league?
He should have been pulled for ineffectiveness, not number of pitches.
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  #21  
Old 08-27-2013, 03:53 PM
captain54 captain54 is offline
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either way, with all the hype about the starting pitching.. the bullpen needs some serious work for 2014.. the bullpen stats for 2013 are just as discouraging as the offense, defense and baserunning.. at this point the bullpen negates any edge the Sox have in 2014 with the starting pitching..

Thornton wet the bed too many times this year... Reed isn't the answer IMHO, but he's cheap... nothing needs to be said about Trincoso... Crain's gone and no one close to replacing him.. hopefully the unloading of contracts can provide some relief... it has too
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  #22  
Old 08-27-2013, 04:57 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by captain54 View Post
at this point the bullpen negates any edge the Sox have in 2014 with the starting pitching..
That's a tad melodramatic, even with the bullpen factored in, the Sox overall pitching staff is still #1 in the AL in WAR, and the top 2 have a pretty wide margin over the rest of the league.

Jones has been fine since a slow start, Lindstrom has a team option for 2014 if needed, and probably either Reinzo or Santiago will be in the bullpen if Johnson starts the season in Chicago.
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  #23  
Old 08-27-2013, 05:41 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
That's a tad melodramatic, even with the bullpen factored in, the Sox overall pitching staff is still #1 in the AL in WAR, and the top 2 have a pretty wide margin over the rest of the league.
I believe White Sox are 4th in WAR in AL.
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  #24  
Old 08-27-2013, 05:50 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by captain54 View Post
either way, with all the hype about the starting pitching.. the bullpen needs some serious work for 2014.. the bullpen stats for 2013 are just as discouraging as the offense, defense and baserunning.. at this point the bullpen negates any edge the Sox have in 2014 with the starting pitching..

Thornton wet the bed too many times this year... Reed isn't the answer IMHO, but he's cheap... nothing needs to be said about Trincoso... Crain's gone and no one close to replacing him.. hopefully the unloading of contracts can provide some relief... it has too
I really hope we use September for some tryouts for young pitchers. We need 4-5 new bullpen pitchers. I have no doubt that the poor pen is the cause of what I see is significant overuse of some starter and 2 relievers. I just think we have to use the crappy bullpen pitchers anyway, and take the losses.
Bu
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  #25  
Old 08-27-2013, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
I believe White Sox are 4th in WAR in AL.
#1 at least according to B-R.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...pitching.shtml
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  #26  
Old 08-27-2013, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
I really hope we use September for some tryouts for young pitchers. We need 4-5 new bullpen pitchers. I have no doubt that the poor pen is the cause of what I see is significant overuse of some starter and 2 relievers. I just think we have to use the crappy bullpen pitchers anyway, and take the losses.
Bu
This bunk science and over-the-top, opinionated nonsense is getting to be as aggravating and annoying as munch's guarantee that Sale's elbow will explode.
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  #27  
Old 08-27-2013, 08:01 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
This bunk science and over-the-top, opinionated nonsense is getting to be as aggravating and annoying as munch's guarantee that Sale's elbow will explode.
What's over-the-top opinionated nonsense is calling a suggestion that pitching a pitcher 5/6 and 8/11 days is overuse "junk science." Funny, how no other team uses their pitchers that way.
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  #28  
Old 08-29-2013, 02:25 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Reed has pitched 8/11 days and Jones 5/6 in these all important games for the race to 70 wins.
A professional please, Hahn.
Reed is on pace to pitch 77 2/3 innings this year. Last year he logged 55, and in 2011 his Minor league and Major League totals were a whopping 85 2/3 innings. I'm sorry but that just shouldn't be too much work for a closer. Nate Jones is on pace for 85 innings pitched this year, after going 71 2/3 last year. As recently as 2010 he labored 152 1/3 innings for Winston-Salem. He should be able to carry his load too. Of course the way pitchers go down these days there are no guarantees, but I fail to see how lessening the burden on two unburdened pitchers is the way to go.
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