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  #61  
Old 08-26-2013, 12:16 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
This won't do it, unless he turns into Greg Maddux for his last 7 years or so:

Hall Of Fame Statistics

Player rank in ()

Black InkPitching - 9 (271), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray InkPitching - 102 (211), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame MonitorPitching - 44 (309), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame StandardsPitching - 26 (195), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS Starting Pitcher (100th), 54.2 career WAR/35.8 7yr-peak WAR/45.0 JAWS
Average HOF P (out of 57) = 72.6 career WAR/50.2 7yr-peak WAR/61.4 JAWS
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Compare Stats to Similars
  1. Bill Gullickson (938)
  2. Scott Sanderson (933)
  3. Frank Viola (927)
  4. Paul Splittorff (925)
  5. John Burkett (921)
  6. Doug Drabek (920)
  7. Mike Flanagan (919)
  8. Bob Forsch (918)
  9. Jimmy Key (917)
  10. Bartolo Colon (916)
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  6. Herb Pennock (906) *
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* - Signifies Hall of Famer
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  5. John Candelaria (957)
  6. Mark Mulder (959)
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  9. Johnny Podres (946)
  10. Frank Viola (941)
  11. Frank Viola (932)
  12. Frank Viola (938)

I don't see how these guys are comparable to Mark Buehrle at all.
1. Bill Gullickson 98 era+ 14 seasons 23.9 war 0 allstars
2. Scott Sanderson 102 era+ 19 seasons 29.6 war 1 allstar
3. Frank Viola 112 era- 15 seasons 47.4 war 3 all stars
4. Paul Splittorff 101 era+ 15 seasons 22.8 war 0 allstars
5. John Burkett 99 era+ 15 seasons 21.6 war 2 allstars
6. Doug Drabek 101 era+ 13 seasons 27.8 war 1 allstar
7. Mike Flanagan 100 era + 18 seasons 26.0 war 1 allstar
8. Bob Forsch 98 era+ 16 seasons 19.1 war 0 allstars
9. Jimmy Key 122 era+ 15 seasons 49.4 war 4 allstars
10. Bartolo Colon 113 era+ 16 seasons 43.3 war 3 allstars... known ped user.
Mark Buehrle....118 era+ 14 seasons 54.9 war 4 allstars with years left to play.
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  #62  
Old 08-26-2013, 12:34 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Assuming Mark Buehrle reaches 200 innings this year, he will be in some pretty good company. Longest 200 innings streaks alltime.

1. Cy Young 19, HOF
2. Warren Spahn 17, HOF
3. Don Sutton 15, HOF
4. Gaylord Perry 15, HOF
5. Greg Maddux 14...he came 2 outs away from doing it 19 straight. HOF this year
6. Phil Niekro 14....1981 strike probably cost him 20 straight years. HOF
7. Christy Mathewson 14, HOF
8. Steve Carlton 13, HOF
9. Pud Galvin 13, HOF
10. Bobo Newsome 13, 51.7 war in 20 seasons. Buehrle is already at 54.9 in 14 seasons.
11. Kid Nichols 13, HOF
12. Eddie Plank 13, HOF
13. Jack Powell 13....a pitcher from the early 20th century. He gets mentioned for the hall of fame from some. 56.0 career war.
14. Red Ruffing 13, HOF
15. Tom Seaver 13, HOF
16. Vic Willis 13, HOF
17. Mark Buehrle 13 ???

The only other pitcher with a streak over 10 years, whose career ended after 1980 is Frank Viola with 10. If Buehrle reaches 15 straight seasons then it will be very hard to ignore him for the Hall of Fame.

Last edited by chicagowhitesox1; 08-26-2013 at 12:49 PM.
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  #63  
Old 08-26-2013, 12:44 PM
SoxFanCPA SoxFanCPA is offline
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Mark Buehrle is not going into the Hall of Fame.
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  #64  
Old 08-26-2013, 12:51 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxFanCPA View Post



Mark Buehrle is not going into the Hall of Fame.
If he puts up 3 more 200 inning seasons he will.
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  #65  
Old 08-26-2013, 12:55 PM
SoxFanCPA SoxFanCPA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
If he puts up 3 more 200 inning seasons he will.
You make my brain hurt.
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  #66  
Old 08-26-2013, 01:38 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
If he puts up 3 more 200 inning seasons he will.
He won't even get 10% of the votes if he puts up 200 innings for 5 more years in a row.
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  #67  
Old 08-26-2013, 01:59 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
He won't even get 10% of the votes if he puts up 200 innings for 5 more years in a row.
You are severely undervaluing Mark Buehrle if you actually believe this.. Five more seasons of 200 innings would put him around 230 wins and a 70 plus war. There is not one Hall of Famer pitcher with 70 plus war not in the Hall of Fame and you actually feel he won't even get 10 percent of the vote? He would probably be a first ballot if he had 5 more 200 inning seasons.
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  #68  
Old 08-26-2013, 07:28 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
You are severely undervaluing Mark Buehrle if you actually believe this.. Five more seasons of 200 innings would put him around 230 wins and a 70 plus war. There is not one Hall of Famer pitcher with 70 plus war not in the Hall of Fame and you actually feel he won't even get 10 percent of the vote? He would probably be a first ballot if he had 5 more 200 inning seasons.
That's just ridiculous. WAR is an accumulating stat. Great for Mark for being good to very good forever. That's not HOF worthy and it isn't even close.
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  #69  
Old 08-26-2013, 09:03 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
That's just ridiculous. WAR is an accumulating stat. Great for Mark for being good to very good forever. That's not HOF worthy and it isn't even close.
Then why is every pitcher with 70 plus war in the Hall of Fame? Buehrle gets somewhat forgotten because he was never a flashy player. This is somewhat interesting too.

These are seven generation of pitchers. Some pitchers overlapped a bit but I feel all of them are where they should be.

Generation1 1880's to 1890's
Cy Young HOF
Kid Nichols HOF
Tim Keefe HOF
John Clarkson HOF
Amos Rusie HOF
Old Hoss Radbourne HOF
Pud Galvin HOF
Mickey Welch HOF
Clark Griffith HOF

Generation 2 1900's to 1910's
Walter Johnson HOF
Christy Mathewson HOF
Pete Alexander HOF
Three Finger Brown HOF
Ed Walsh HOF
Eddie Plank HOF
Rube Waddell HOF
Addie Joss HOF
Chief Bender HOF
Joe McGinity HOF
Rube Marquard HOF
Jack Chesbro HOF
Vic Willis HOF

Generation 3 1920's to 1930's
Lefty Grove HOF
Carl Hubbell HOF
Dizzy Dean HOF
Dazzy Vance HOF
Ted Lyons HOF
Eppa Rixey HOF
Red Faber HOF
Stan Coveleski HOF
Red Ruffing HOF
Waite Hoyt HOF
Burleigh Grimes HOF
Lefty Gomez HOF
Herb Pennock HOF
Jesse Haines HOF

Generation 4 1940's to 1950's
Warren Spahn HOF
Robin Roberts HOF
Bob Feller HOF
Hal Newhouser HOF
Early Wynn HOF
Bob Lemon HOF
Whity Ford HOF
Satchel Paige HOF
Billy Pierce...Possible future Hall of Famer

Generation 5 1960's to 1970's
Tom Seaver HOF
Steve Carlton HOF
Nolan Ryan HOF
Gaylord Perry HOF
Phil Niekro HOF
Don Sutton HOF
Fergie Jenkins HOF
Bert Blyleven HOF
Jim Palmer HOF
Sandy Koufax HOF
Bob Gibson HOF
Don Drysdale HOF
Catfish Hunter HOF
Juan Marichal HOF
Jim Bunning HOF
................................
Generation 6 1980's to 1990's
Greg Maddux future HOF
Roger Clemens...He had a Hall of Fame career
Randy Johnson Future HOF
Pedro Martinez Future HOF
Mike Mussina Future HOF
Curt Schilling Future HOF
Tom Glavine Future HOF
John Smoltz Future HOF
Jack Morris..Gets consideration and Buehrle has had a better career.
David Cone...outside chance of making it.

Generation 7 2000's to current
Roy Halladay...He will get in
CC Sabathia....He's got a decent shot but he looks like he's slowing down.
Felix Hernandez...It's still to early to say but he's got a good chance
Justin Verlander...Same boat as Felix Hernandez
Tim Hudson....This injury may cost him
Roy Oswalt....I don't think he has a chance
Cliff Lee...He's got a outside chance if he stays healthy
Bartolo Colon...Even with a steroid deduction he has no chance.
Barry Zito...No chance
Matt Cain...Possibly but he's geting lit up pretty hard this year.
Jake Peavy...Too injury prone
Chris Carpenter....Too many injuries
Dan Haren....No chance
John Lackey....No chance
Clayton Kershaw...Very good chance
Chris Sale...Staring out good
Adam Waignwright....starting out good
Zack Grienke...I would be surprised if he had a long career
AJ Burnett...I would say Buehrle is better
Andy Pettite..steroid deduction
Johan Santana...he has a good argument on being better than Buehrle but he looks like he's finished.
Cole Hamels....Possibly but I doubt he keeps it up.
Jered Weaver...He's looking strong.
Stephen Strasburg...Has potential
Matt Harvey....Might be injury prone.
Tim Lincecum...He'll probably be a reliever soon which may help his chances.

Mark Buehrle will have a top 8 career out of these guys.

Each generation will produce at least 8 Hall of Famer pitchers. I don't see too many of Mark Buehrle's generation having better overall careers than him.

Last edited by chicagowhitesox1; 08-27-2013 at 07:13 AM.
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  #70  
Old 08-30-2013, 08:53 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Mark Buehrle pitched another nice game, throwing 7 shutout innings and beating a pretty tough Royals offense. He's up to 179 innings on the year and will probably bring his war up to around 55.2 which will put him ahead of Three Finger Brown and Kevin Appier. Next up is Tim Hudson at 55.3.
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  #71  
Old 08-30-2013, 09:02 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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While I don't think Buehrle is on a HOF level of dominance, there is something to be said for being very good for a very long time. If it gets to a point where he continues to put up 10-15 wins and 200 IP all the way through age 40, then I think the longevity factor deserves a much closer look.
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  #72  
Old 08-31-2013, 12:16 AM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
Then why is every pitcher with 70 plus war in the Hall of Fame? Buehrle gets somewhat forgotten because he was never a flashy player. This is somewhat interesting too.

These are seven generation of pitchers. Some pitchers overlapped a bit but I feel all of them are where they should be.

Generation1 1880's to 1890's
Cy Young HOF
Kid Nichols HOF
Tim Keefe HOF
John Clarkson HOF
Amos Rusie HOF
Old Hoss Radbourne HOF
Pud Galvin HOF
Mickey Welch HOF
Clark Griffith HOF

Generation 2 1900's to 1910's
Walter Johnson HOF
Christy Mathewson HOF
Pete Alexander HOF
Three Finger Brown HOF
Ed Walsh HOF
Eddie Plank HOF
Rube Waddell HOF
Addie Joss HOF
Chief Bender HOF
Joe McGinity HOF
Rube Marquard HOF
Jack Chesbro HOF
Vic Willis HOF

Generation 3 1920's to 1930's
Lefty Grove HOF
Carl Hubbell HOF
Dizzy Dean HOF
Dazzy Vance HOF
Ted Lyons HOF
Eppa Rixey HOF
Red Faber HOF
Stan Coveleski HOF
Red Ruffing HOF
Waite Hoyt HOF
Burleigh Grimes HOF
Lefty Gomez HOF
Herb Pennock HOF
Jesse Haines HOF

Generation 4 1940's to 1950's
Warren Spahn HOF
Robin Roberts HOF
Bob Feller HOF
Hal Newhouser HOF
Early Wynn HOF
Bob Lemon HOF
Whity Ford HOF
Satchel Paige HOF
Billy Pierce...Possible future Hall of Famer

Generation 5 1960's to 1970's
Tom Seaver HOF
Steve Carlton HOF
Nolan Ryan HOF
Gaylord Perry HOF
Phil Niekro HOF
Don Sutton HOF
Fergie Jenkins HOF
Bert Blyleven HOF
Jim Palmer HOF
Sandy Koufax HOF
Bob Gibson HOF
Don Drysdale HOF
Catfish Hunter HOF
Juan Marichal HOF
Jim Bunning HOF
................................
Generation 6 1980's to 1990's
Greg Maddux future HOF
Roger Clemens...He had a Hall of Fame career
Randy Johnson Future HOF
Pedro Martinez Future HOF
Mike Mussina Future HOF
Curt Schilling Future HOF
Tom Glavine Future HOF
John Smoltz Future HOF
Jack Morris..Gets consideration and Buehrle has had a better career.
David Cone...outside chance of making it.

Generation 7 2000's to current
Roy Halladay...He will get in
CC Sabathia....He's got a decent shot but he looks like he's slowing down.
Felix Hernandez...It's still to early to say but he's got a good chance
Justin Verlander...Same boat as Felix Hernandez
Tim Hudson....This injury may cost him
Roy Oswalt....I don't think he has a chance
Cliff Lee...He's got a outside chance if he stays healthy
Bartolo Colon...Even with a steroid deduction he has no chance.
Barry Zito...No chance
Matt Cain...Possibly but he's geting lit up pretty hard this year.
Jake Peavy...Too injury prone
Chris Carpenter....Too many injuries
Dan Haren....No chance
John Lackey....No chance
Clayton Kershaw...Very good chance
Chris Sale...Staring out good
Adam Waignwright....starting out good
Zack Grienke...I would be surprised if he had a long career
AJ Burnett...I would say Buehrle is better
Andy Pettite..steroid deduction
Johan Santana...he has a good argument on being better than Buehrle but he looks like he's finished.
Cole Hamels....Possibly but I doubt he keeps it up.
Jered Weaver...He's looking strong.
Stephen Strasburg...Has potential
Matt Harvey....Might be injury prone.
Tim Lincecum...He'll probably be a reliever soon which may help his chances.

Mark Buehrle will have a top 8 career out of these guys.

Each generation will produce at least 8 Hall of Famer pitchers. I don't see too many of Mark Buehrle's generation having better overall careers than him.
Good luck with that thought process.
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  #73  
Old 08-31-2013, 01:46 AM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
Good luck with that thought process.
I just find it kinda interesting where Buehrle stands among pitchers of this generation. Topps baseball cards have even added war to the back of thier baseball cards so that's gotta tell you that war is becoming a pretty big deal. It also wouldn't surprise me if Buehrle finishes with more career victorys than both Roy Halladay and CC Sabathia and I don't see anyone else winning more in the near future so some of these old school stats could work in his favor too. Like I said before, if Buehrle can maintain 200 innings for 3 or 4 more years, I find it hard to believe he won't be mentioned for The Hall of Fame.
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  #74  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:24 AM
insp insp is offline
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MB does not belong in the HOF unless Billy Pierce gets in it first.
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  #75  
Old 08-31-2013, 09:29 AM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insp View Post
MB does not belong in the HOF unless Billy Pierce gets in it first.
Well Billy Pierce deserves to be in but Buehrle shouldn't be penalized for voters mistakes. Personally I think Pierce was better than every pitcher in his generation except for Spahn, Roberts, Feller and Paige.

Billy Pierce 18 seasons
211wins, 3.27era, 3306ip, 1999k, 119era+, 53.1war
Mark Buehrle 14 seasons
185wins, 3.83era, 2855ip, 1644k, 118era+,55.2war

I would say Buehrle and Pierce are pretty close. I think Pierce is a little better though. But again in 3 or 4 more years this might not be as close as it is now.
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