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View Poll Results: What should we do with Sale for the rest of the year?
Shut him down! Not worth the risk. 5 4.63%
Ease him out. Miss a few starts. 54 50.00%
Pitch him and build up arm strength so he's effective longer next year. 37 34.26%
Let him eat churros! 12 11.11%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 08-24-2013, 05:51 PM
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FielderJones FielderJones is offline
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How did shutting down Stasburg work out?
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  #32  
Old 08-24-2013, 07:26 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by FielderJones View Post
How did shutting down Stasburg work out?
Well that's really not a similar situation.
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  #33  
Old 08-24-2013, 08:03 PM
34rancher 34rancher is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Sale needs to continue to pitch because he has a lot to learn.

He's very talented, but he needs to learn to concentrate on making a good pitch every time he throws the ball because that pitch can be the difference in the ballgame. (See the first home run he allowed last night.)

Sale also needs to learn to control his emotions on the mound. His act, perhaps picked up from Peavy, of visibly getting mad after making a mistake is getting old. It only compounds the original mistake. (See the second home run he allowed last night.)
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Originally Posted by amsteel View Post
So he doesn't hurt himself beating up a water cooler.
Damn peavy then. Anyone see this?
http://my.chicagotribune.com/#sectio.../p2p-77146443/
Someone has to tell Nuke not to use his pitching arm!!!
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  #34  
Old 08-24-2013, 08:54 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I don't think it's just a workload carryover it's the type of work. I would be willing to bet that every single player playing in the World Series is playing right at the edge of their ability. There is no tomorrow. There is nothing to hold back this is why you play the game. Adreniline is maxed, effort is pushed to the extreme and every single pitch could be the difference between winning and losing the game.

The extra 6-8 starts from playing a full post season don't help but when the final 2-3 of an extra long season require every single thing you have left in the tank, that can cause fatigue.

At least that's what I would speculate. I admit I am not a doctor and have nothing but anecdotal evidence to rely on.
Attributing less production the year after a pitcher goes to the World Series to pitching deeper into the season is a bit simplistic. As you noted, there is more to it than simply inning pitched and pitches thrown. There also tend to be more distractions during the off-season. Players get more scrutiny the more they have succeeded. Pitchers and hitters alike can go into slumps and the chances are that there are fewer, less severe slumps in your most successful seasons.

But the idea that pitching less this year will make you a better pitcher next year has even less foundation than the idea that pitching in October makes you a weaker pitcher the following April.

Keeping Sale under 220 innings isn't going to make him a better pitcher next year. Shutting him down at 200 innings this year isn't going to add seasons to his career. There is no evidence that it should, anyway.
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  #35  
Old 08-24-2013, 08:55 PM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
Well that's really not a similar situation.
Yeah. They shut him down in the heat of a pennant race. GREAT IDEA.
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  #36  
Old 08-24-2013, 10:35 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Originally Posted by WLL1855 View Post
Yeah. They shut him down in the heat of a pennant race. GREAT IDEA.
In case anyone's out of the loop, Strasburg was a year removed from Tommy John surgery. So the situations aren't parallel.
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  #37  
Old 08-24-2013, 10:54 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
In case anyone's out of the loop, Strasburg was a year removed from Tommy John surgery. So the situations aren't parallel.
The way some people around here talk, you'd think Sale was born needing TJ.
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  #38  
Old 08-25-2013, 12:28 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Let's throw another pitcher in here, one who no one is going to argue is or likely will be injured: Matt Harvey.

The Mets have eased him out with more days between starts and plan to shut him down after a few more starts. Why? Because he is near/over the most innings he has pitched in his professional career and has looked much less effective in his last four or so starts.

Is that a bad decision?
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  #39  
Old 08-25-2013, 12:51 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Let's throw another pitcher in here, one who no one is going to argue is or likely will be injured: Matt Harvey.

The Mets have eased him out with more days between starts and plan to shut him down after a few more starts. Why? Because he is near/over the most innings he has pitched in his professional career and has looked much less effective in his last four or so starts.

Is that a bad decision?
Not for the Mets. Harvey isn't yet eligible for arbitration, but he still could demand a higher salary next year if he had continued to have a great season, perhaps even winning the Cy Young Award. The Mets shut him down ostensibly to save his arm, but many believe they did it to save money.
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  #40  
Old 08-25-2013, 04:04 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
Chris Sale is probably one of the top 10 pitchers in baseball. He is in the top 10 in ERA and SO. He is also still young and as such still gaining experience.
I bet fans of every pitcher in the top 10 would say their guy needs to concentrate on making a good pitch every time they throw the ball. What ML pitcher already makes a good pitch every time they throw the ball????
Sale has been damn good so far. I am not sure why he should control his emotions. Overall being emotional has been pretty successful for him. Heck we had plenty of people say Rios wasn't emotional enough. I know Clemens and Shilling were very much like Peavy when they made a bad pitch. They probably needed to follow the make a good pitch every time rule as well.
Sale is a great pitcher on a lousy team. I hope he doesn't make too many adjustments because a top 10 ML pitcher is very rare.
Okay, so he's in the top 10 in ERA and SO. That's good. He can be better in the win department. The number of victories a pitcher earns is of course dependent on run support, but it's not the only determining factor. He can improve on the other factors.

If Sale wants to reach his full potential, then he really does need to cut down on his bad pitches. Scherzer and Kershaw hardly make any in a game. Their concentration for a full game is amazing. Sale should aim to reach that mental level. It can be the difference in winning a game 1-0 or losing it 2-1. He's come up on the short end of some such games when he doesn't have to.

Yes, Sale needs to control his emotions on the mound. If you've watched most of his starts I think you would know that. He had a start, earlier this month if I remember correctly, where he got frustrated and mad and basically gave up, resorting to just whipping fastballs with a loose attitude. The result was not pretty. Again, I'll also point to his last start. He did something similar after serving up the first homer. He stopped pitching and just started chucking. That resulted in another bad pitch and another home run.

Sale's potential is not limited to being a Top 10 pitcher. He can be in the top handful and perhaps even the best, if he learns along the way and improves his mental makeup.
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  #41  
Old 08-25-2013, 09:29 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Let's throw another pitcher in here, one who no one is going to argue is or likely will be injured: Matt Harvey.

The Mets have eased him out with more days between starts and plan to shut him down after a few more starts. Why? Because he is near/over the most innings he has pitched in his professional career and has looked much less effective in his last four or so starts.

Is that a bad decision?
And the Sox did the same with Sale last season.
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  #42  
Old 08-25-2013, 10:08 AM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Okay, so he's in the top 10 in ERA and SO. That's good. He can be better in the win department. The number of victories a pitcher earns is of course dependent on run support, but it's not the only determining factor. He can improve on the other factors.

If Sale wants to reach his full potential, then he really does need to cut down on his bad pitches. Scherzer and Kershaw hardly make any in a game. Their concentration for a full game is amazing. Sale should aim to reach that mental level. It can be the difference in winning a game 1-0 or losing it 2-1. He's come up on the short end of some such games when he doesn't have to.

Yes, Sale needs to control his emotions on the mound. If you've watched most of his starts I think you would know that. He had a start, earlier this month if I remember correctly, where he got frustrated and mad and basically gave up, resorting to just whipping fastballs with a loose attitude. The result was not pretty. Again, I'll also point to his last start. He did something similar after serving up the first homer. He stopped pitching and just started chucking. That resulted in another bad pitch and another home run.

Sale's potential is not limited to being a Top 10 pitcher. He can be in the top handful and perhaps even the best, if he learns along the way and improves his mental makeup.
If anyone is blaming the pitcher for not getting the win in a 2-1 game, they need their head checked.
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  #43  
Old 08-25-2013, 11:03 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by WLL1855 View Post
If anyone is blaming the pitcher for not getting the win in a 2-1 game, they need their head checked.
If a pitcher can be blamed for giving up a late lead, the score is irrelevant.
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  #44  
Old 08-25-2013, 11:40 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Not for the Mets. Harvey isn't yet eligible for arbitration, but he still could demand a higher salary next year if he had continued to have a great season, perhaps even winning the Cy Young Award. The Mets shut him down ostensibly to save his arm, but many believe they did it to save money.
Or, unless he's lying, he's actually damn tired. Aside from his own words, linked below, take a look at his splits in the second half. He's running out of gas.

Harvey says he's tired
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  #45  
Old 08-25-2013, 11:40 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
And the Sox did the same with Sale last season.
And wisely so.
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