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  #31  
Old 08-14-2013, 09:24 PM
Iron Dragon2 Iron Dragon2 is offline
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Make him go away.
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  #32  
Old 08-14-2013, 09:38 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by balke View Post
I don't think it's being dismissed. He can hit homeruns (apparently only at first base). What value is that to the Sox? He's not a very good first baseman. He's extremely streaky, and hits anywhere from .159 to .239.

I think there's value for a contender, which is what the Sox thought they'd be when they got him. But, if he can't be a DH, then what's the point? Kinda the same feeling I had when the Sox signed him.
His value to the Sox is he is one of a couple players in the lineup who aren't allergic to RBI's. And that not a good first baseman argument is weak because there have been a lot of good hit no field first baseman , Big Hurt was mediocre at best but who cares when you hit like that. You can hide those deficiencies at first base. Do you think anyone cares Miguel Cabrera is a butcher at 3B? And that's a much more critical position.
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  #33  
Old 08-14-2013, 09:51 PM
34rancher 34rancher is offline
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Yeah but when the Sox signed him they had PK. Now they don't.
Actually they weren't sure PK was coming back quite yet. I remember in the thread that was a big discussion point as to whether this meant Paulie was coming back or not.
Dunn is a Sammy Sosa. Lots of meaningless seasons when team is sub .500. When a team needs him in critical period of season or time in game he's MIA with a K. He just isn't a pressure guy who can lead a team. As I said when we signed him, be ready for no playoff baseball until and peavy were gone. Horrible off season habits and no real contributions when it matters on wrong side of 30.
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  #34  
Old 08-15-2013, 11:48 AM
balke balke is offline
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Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
His value to the Sox is he is one of a couple players in the lineup who aren't allergic to RBI's. And that not a good first baseman argument is weak because there have been a lot of good hit no field first baseman , Big Hurt was mediocre at best but who cares when you hit like that. You can hide those deficiencies at first base. Do you think anyone cares Miguel Cabrera is a butcher at 3B? And that's a much more critical position.

Im missing the part where Dunn is in some way comparable to future hall of fame sluggers?
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  #35  
Old 08-15-2013, 11:58 AM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Guy's got something like a .930 OPS since June is on a pace to hit 40+ HR and drive in 90+ on a team with zero offensive ability. There are exactly 11 guys in the majors with an OPS over .900 this season. If Dunn finishes around .850 he'll be in the top 25 in the league. I don't see how you can dismiss that kind of performance.

You can't dismiss that kind of performance, but face facts. Dunn has stunk 12 out of 17 months he's worn a Sox uniform. Racking up garbage time numbers isn't going to change the fact he is liable to put up half a season to a full season of garbage at any given time.
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  #36  
Old 08-15-2013, 12:49 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by balke View Post
Im missing the part where Dunn is in some way comparable to future hall of fame sluggers?
Similar performance through age 32, per baseball-reference.com. 3 HOFers here, and Thome.
  1. Harmon Killebrew (873) *
  2. Reggie Jackson (873) *
  3. Rocky Colavito (872)
  4. Jim Thome (863)
  5. Jose Canseco (858)
  6. Dale Murphy (846)
  7. Ralph Kiner (844) *
  8. Andruw Jones (835)
  9. Boog Powell (826)
  10. Greg Luzinski (824)
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  #37  
Old 08-15-2013, 04:18 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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We need to be careful about calling Dunn's revival garbage time, because Beckham's revival took place over roughly the same time. Of course no one's made this point because Beckham's a halo guy and Dunn isn't.

So for consistency we should call both revivals garbage time hitting or better yet, ease up on Dunn.
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  #38  
Old 08-15-2013, 06:59 PM
balke balke is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Similar performance through age 32, per baseball-reference.com. 3 HOFers here, and Thome.
  1. Harmon Killebrew (873) *
  2. Reggie Jackson (873) *
  3. Rocky Colavito (872)
  4. Jim Thome (863)
  5. Jose Canseco (858)
  6. Dale Murphy (846)
  7. Ralph Kiner (844) *
  8. Andruw Jones (835)
  9. Boog Powell (826)
  10. Greg Luzinski (824)
What is this? I just see numbers with no reference.

I need to know what chart has an 8-time all-star, 7-time home run leader, and career .940 OPS Ralph Kiner in the same discussion as Adam Dunn.

4 time strikeout leader.
Lowest single season batting average since 1909.
Most errors of any left fielder through 2011.
2 All-stars, 0 playoff appearances. 0 titles.
Let go from Cincinnati because he can't play defense.

If you want to be rational and say "Adam Dunn is a top 12 1Bman right now even with his poor defense", fine. I don't want to hear "Frank Thomas, Miguel Cabrera, Gehrig".

He's on pace for 37 Hr and 85 RBI. People are excited by his hot streak. He's signed through next season, trade him at the deadline if he continues to hit the ball. Don't wait around for another 2011 season.
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  #39  
Old 08-15-2013, 07:03 PM
balke balke is offline
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
We need to be careful about calling Dunn's revival garbage time, because Beckham's revival took place over roughly the same time. Of course no one's made this point because Beckham's a halo guy and Dunn isn't.

So for consistency we should call both revivals garbage time hitting or better yet, ease up on Dunn.
Can we call his whole career garbage time? He has the longest active streak of any MLB player without a single playoff appearance.
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  #40  
Old 08-15-2013, 10:14 PM
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tstrike2000 tstrike2000 is offline
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I'm glad Dunn's made a resurgence these last few months, but as someone else said, he's been bad for 12 of his 17 months here. Too much of his time here has reminded me more of Mark Reynolds than Adam Dunn. If this helps his trade value this offseason, then I'm still hopeful he can be moved.
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  #41  
Old 08-15-2013, 10:36 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by balke View Post
What is this? I just see numbers with no reference.

I need to know what chart has an 8-time all-star, 7-time home run leader, and career .940 OPS Ralph Kiner in the same discussion as Adam Dunn.
I gave you the website, which is an awesome site if you want to look at some baseball history. So how is there no reference? They explain their calculators for player comparisons, career and at current ages, for every player. Every player. Go take a look, and it will answer all your questions. You might be the first person to knock Baseball Reference!
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  #42  
Old 08-15-2013, 11:30 PM
shingo10 shingo10 is offline
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I'm not sure what ages Thome, Jones, and Canseco were when the Sox had them but I think putting Dunn in that group is pretty accurate. He gives solid power numbers but isn't necessarily a guy you'd want up in the clutch. He's had his moments and hot stretches but he isn't nor ever was the end-all-be-all.

I think his new approach at the start of the season of not taking walks was an awful idea from the get go...guys like him and Thome add value from getting on base in addition to the homeruns. To try out a different strategy wasn't very smart and the Sox should take just as much blame as he does for that.
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  #43  
Old 08-15-2013, 11:49 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Originally Posted by tstrike2000 View Post
I'm glad Dunn's made a resurgence these last few months, but as someone else said, he's been bad for 12 of his 17 months here. Too much of his time here has reminded me more of Mark Reynolds than Adam Dunn. If this helps his trade value this offseason, then I'm still hopeful he can be moved.
Unless he has a similar 2014, I'd imagine the demand for him will never be higher than it is right now - and that demand is apparently zero. It definitely shouldn't be any higher in the offseason. Hopefully, the Orioles dive has them desperate enough to give Hahn a call on him, soon.
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  #44  
Old 08-16-2013, 03:21 AM
Nelson Foxtrot Nelson Foxtrot is offline
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I haven't seen many games lately. Can somebody tell me what changes Dunn has made at the plate? Also, what does everybody think about the lack of power during his hot streak?

Pre-ASB: 360 PA (310 AB) 9 2B, 24 HR .213/.317/.474
Post-ASB: 112 PA (93 AB) 3 2B, 3 HR .301/.411/.430

While he's obviously a much better overall hitter during this time, I'm not sure it really helps his trade value. All the talk before the deadline was based on teams needing a power upgrade. Will GMs focus on the overall numbers, or be worried that Dunn can only hit well by becoming a singles hitter?

Given the cost, speed/defensive-impairments, and playing at a power position, I think we may be overstating Dunn's potential trade value, even if the Sox eat a few million dollars. Of course, a few homers in the next week may change things.
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  #45  
Old 08-16-2013, 09:58 AM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by shingo10 View Post
I'm not sure what ages Thome, Jones, and Canseco were when the Sox had them but I think putting Dunn in that group is pretty accurate. He gives solid power numbers but isn't necessarily a guy you'd want up in the clutch. He's had his moments and hot stretches but he isn't nor ever was the end-all-be-all.

I think his new approach at the start of the season of not taking walks was an awful idea from the get go...guys like him and Thome add value from getting on base in addition to the homeruns. To try out a different strategy wasn't very smart and the Sox should take just as much blame as he does for that.
I admit I haven't followed the team that closely this year. Dunn really was trying to not walk as much early in the season? Whose brilliant idea was that? If the team tried to change him... ugh...
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