White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
Congratulations on winning the AL ROTY award unanimously, Jose!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 08-12-2013, 01:52 PM
Huisj Huisj is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Auburn Hills, MI
Posts: 3,432
Default

I don't think you start putting innings caps on guys for future years when you have no idea what the situation will be. They could be good, they could be terrible. He could be on fire, he could be worn out, he could throw lots of laborsome innings for a lousy team, he could get hurt, he could be steady and efficient. Who knows.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-12-2013, 01:57 PM
thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lombard
Posts: 23,654
Default

I don't like it unless he's coming off a serious injury, which he's not. I hate this era of protecting pitchers more than we should at times. Either pitch 'em as far they can reasonably go without blowing their arms out or trade him someplace where he can be more useful.
__________________
Bullpen wanted
Good arms now being accepted at 333 W. 35th Street, Chicago
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-13-2013, 10:20 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,529
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I'd have the discussion about this year but would still defer to those in charge. Let them figure out if he needs the down time. Some guys do better with more work.

I can't see how we can have a discussion about what goes down 12 months from now. I don't expect to be able to recognize the team next season. I expect the Sox are going to spend a LOT of money in FA this off season and how that will impact next season only time will tell.
I wish I shared your optimism. The good news is that, whatever money they do spend on FA probably doesn't have to go toward starting pitching.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-13-2013, 10:37 AM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 48,064
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
I wish I shared your optimism. The good news is that, whatever money they do spend on FA probably doesn't have to go toward starting pitching.
The Sox have a grand total of $48M committed to next year's payroll according to Cots. Even with raises coming for Beckham, Viciedo and Flowers (assuming they keep him) they should have 40-45M to spend just to get back to $100M (which they've easily averaged since 2006). That should net them a 3B and Catcher and hopefully an OF too with money left over to spend on RP and a #5 SP (if they think they need one).

I expect Beckham to sign a 4-5 year contract and they might try to lock in Tank for 3-4 years too, but expect both their 2014 numbers to come in at or below Sale this year (3.5 M). That's a total obligation of 55M - 40M if they trade Dunn.

All of this is before we even factor in the extra money they will get from the new national TV contract.

Even if they go really low on payroll due to obligations not met from this season they will have 25M or so to spend and I'll be shocked if they only commit 80M to payroll next year. They haven't been that low since 2005.
__________________

Riding shotgun on the Sox bandwagon since before there was an Internet...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-13-2013, 11:18 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 13,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

I wouldn't put an innings cap on him. I just don't see any reason to put over 110 pitches in a single game on him, or anyone else, other than on rare occasion.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-13-2013, 11:29 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,529
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
The Sox have a grand total of $48M committed to next year's payroll according to Cots. Even with raises coming for Beckham, Viciedo and Flowers (assuming they keep him) they should have 40-45M to spend just to get back to $100M (which they've easily averaged since 2006). That should net them a 3B and Catcher and hopefully an OF too with money left over to spend on RP and a #5 SP (if they think they need one).

I expect Beckham to sign a 4-5 year contract and they might try to lock in Tank for 3-4 years too, but expect both their 2014 numbers to come in at or below Sale this year (3.5 M). That's a total obligation of 55M - 40M if they trade Dunn.

All of this is before we even factor in the extra money they will get from the new national TV contract.

Even if they go really low on payroll due to obligations not met from this season they will have 25M or so to spend and I'll be shocked if they only commit 80M to payroll next year. They haven't been that low since 2005.
Dunn and Danks will make close to $30M between the two of them. Are you saying that the payroll commitment for the rest of the team combined is a little less than $20M? Wow.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-13-2013, 11:31 AM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 54,338
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
I wouldn't put an innings cap on him. I just don't see any reason to put over 110 pitches in a single game on him, or anyone else, other than on rare occasion.
Do you have any sort of substantiated scientific or medical data to back this opinion?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-13-2013, 11:55 AM
Wedema Wedema is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hammond, IN
Posts: 646
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Dunn and Danks will make close to $30M between the two of them. Are you saying that the payroll commitment for the rest of the team combined is a little less than $20M? Wow.

Ramirez jumps up to $9.5M next year so that is $40M for the trio of Dunn, Danks, and Ramirez.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-13-2013, 12:04 PM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 54,338
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Dunn and Danks will make close to $30M between the two of them. Are you saying that the payroll commitment for the rest of the team combined is a little less than $20M? Wow.
That's only because guys who are in their arb or pre-arb years don't count towards the guaranteed total for next season; none of them have guarantee deals for the 2014 season even if they are still under team control. This includes guys like De Aza, Beckham, and Viciedo who will probably earn between $8-$10 million combined.

B-R's payroll tracker currently shows the Sox's estimated payroll for 2014 based on all guaranteed salaries, expected arb cases, and adding enough league minimum salaries to reach a 25-man roster at a tick under $70 million.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/te...salaries.shtml

The Sox currently only have guaranteed deals for 2014 with Danks ($14.25 M), Dunn ($15 M), Ramirez ($9.5 M), Sale ($3.5 M), and Keppinger ($4 M).
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-13-2013, 02:47 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gonzales LA
Posts: 13,000
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Do you have any sort of substantiated scientific or medical data to back this opinion?
No, just basic logic, the opinions of every other manager in MLB who don't pitch their pitchers like that and the opinions of many writers and analysts. But thanks for asking, Mr Moderator.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-13-2013, 03:00 PM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 54,338
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
No, just basic logic, the opinions of every other manager in MLB who don't pitch their pitchers like that and the opinions of many writers and analysts. But thanks for asking, Mr Moderator.
God, it's going to be so embarrassing for you when someone takes the 15 seconds of time needed to show that, depending on what day it is, Chris Sale's not even in the top 30 of pitches thrown in MLB this year...

http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...pitching.shtml

So embarrassing. You're trying though, and I appreciate the effort.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-13-2013, 03:39 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,529
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
That's only because guys who are in their arb or pre-arb years don't count towards the guaranteed total for next season; none of them have guarantee deals for the 2014 season even if they are still under team control. This includes guys like De Aza, Beckham, and Viciedo who will probably earn between $8-$10 million combined.

B-R's payroll tracker currently shows the Sox's estimated payroll for 2014 based on all guaranteed salaries, expected arb cases, and adding enough league minimum salaries to reach a 25-man roster at a tick under $70 million.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/te...salaries.shtml

The Sox currently only have guaranteed deals for 2014 with Danks ($14.25 M), Dunn ($15 M), Ramirez ($9.5 M), Sale ($3.5 M), and Keppinger ($4 M).
That makes more sense.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-13-2013, 04:07 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
The Blind Squirrel that finally found an acorn.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Nw Side
Posts: 7,345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
That makes more sense.

Thats where I see it, I dont see it anywhere close to 100M. Hope the extra coin is used in the minor league system, foreign signings, not more pocket change for ownership.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-13-2013, 04:34 PM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 54,338
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Thats where I see it, I dont see it anywhere close to 100M. Hope the extra coin is used in the minor league system, foreign signings, not more pocket change for ownership.
Since winning the World Series, the Sox Opening Day payroll has been, on average, $108 M. I expect it to come in around there.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-13-2013, 04:47 PM
kobo kobo is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mount prospect
Posts: 4,501
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Since winning the World Series, the Sox Opening Day payroll has been, on average, $108 M. I expect it to come in around there.
Ok, but this organization is no longer thriving off the high of the WS. There is a new GM in charge now, they are going to finish with a record we haven't seen in a long time, and with moves that have been made so far this indicates to me an organizational change. The payroll could be $100 million next year, but I think it will be more in the $85-90 million range.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:35 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.