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  #136  
Old 08-08-2013, 09:59 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Originally Posted by ND_Sox_Fan View Post
JIM BOWDEN (@JimBowdenESPNxm)
White Sox are not getting Perez, Jackson or Odor for Rios but if price drops to Nick Martinez it could get done...tick tick tick tock


Thoughts?
Jim Bowden is a jackass. Is he advocating for the Rangers?


The Rangers can increase their offer, or else they can spend the rest of the season with Oddibe McDowell playing right field. Tick Tick Tick Tick.
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  #137  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:05 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by Over By There View Post
Lets look for just a moment at the premise that no one would possibly be interested in Alex Rios this offseason, because that seems to be the primary argument of those that think we should let him go now with no return. I don't know if the list of available FA outfielders posted earlier in this thread is accurate or exhaustive, but these are the names that were listed, as reasons that Alex Rios would not be desirable to a team looking for an outfielder: "Choo, Nelson Cruz, Ellsbury, McClouth, Pence, Granderson, and Corey Hart." Let's just take a second and look at this list more closely.

Choo is a good player. But is he significantly better than Rios? Choo is hitting .283 with 15 HR and 12 SB. Rios' respective numbers are .277, 12 and 26. Choo is a good player, but he is going to easily command over $10M a year anyway, and his numbers aren't much better than Rios.

Nelson Cruz can be a great hitter. But he is an admitted doper and has fought injuries.

Nate McLouth is garbage. Corey Hart has had one or two decent years and has otherwise primarily been injured.

Curtis Granderson is intriguing but has missed most of this season with injuries, and when he's played this year he's put together a .217 average.

Hunter Pence's numbers, again, are really not that different than Rios'. He's hitting .275 with 14 HRs and 17 SB.

So that leaves Ellsbury, who is clearly an elite leadoff man and will deserve the attention he gets. But that doesn't mean Alex Rios is worthless.

This is what annoys me, frankly. Several people in this thread have it in their head that Rios is worthless, and should be given away. That simply is not accurate. Look over that list above and tell me which outfielders you'd clearly rather have on your team over Alex Rios. Ellsbury, sure. But then where do you find significantly more production?

This whole thing, to me, reeks of meatheadedness. Dah, dat Alex Rios plays like he don't care - get rid of da bum! Dah, Toronto didn't want dat guy and Kenny Williams got stuck with him 'cause he's an idiot! This is our chance to get out!

Listen, Rios has frustrated me at times, too. But when you look at the situation objectively, there is no reason to rush to give him away right now. Thats the only thing I'm arguing. Look at the list above again - there will be a market for Rios this offseason. Right now the Rangers are a little bit over the barrel - don't help them out, as Hawk would say.
Fantastic post and I agree 100%.
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  #138  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:07 PM
SouthSideMike SouthSideMike is offline
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Hasn't been mentioned in this thread (at least I don't think so), but Fangraphs has Rios with the 7th highest wins above replacement among RFs since 2012. Hardly the bum some people are claiming, and certainly not someone you give away.

For a basis of comparison, the man he could replace on the Rangers, Nelson Cruz, is 23rd on the list.
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  #139  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:10 PM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Originally Posted by ND_Sox_Fan View Post
JIM BOWDEN (@JimBowdenESPNxm)
White Sox are not getting Perez, Jackson or Odor for Rios but if price drops to Nick Martinez it could get done...tick tick tick tock


Thoughts?
Nick Martinez has a chance to be a good one, I'm actually okay w/that; I'm starting to be a Martin Perez non-believer; Luke Jackson looks good and would love to have him, but oh well...; and Odor we don't need because the only true organizational position depth the Sox have is at 2B.
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  #140  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:11 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
What this guy said.^^^
Indeed. A voice of reason in this thread.

Even good players can dog it sometimes. Live with it. The numbers speak another story.
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  #141  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:12 PM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Originally Posted by SouthSideMike View Post
Hasn't been mentioned in this thread (at least I don't think so), but Fangraphs has Rios with the 7th highest wins above replacement among RFs since 2012. Hardly the bum some people are claiming, and certainly not someone you give away.

For a basis of comparison, the man he could replace on the Rangers, Nelson Cruz, is 23rd on the list.
Because, at WSI, there is a certain grass is always greener on the other side faction that's annoying as hell.
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  #142  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:17 PM
PalehosePlanet PalehosePlanet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Over By There View Post
Lets look for just a moment at the premise that no one would possibly be interested in Alex Rios this offseason, because that seems to be the primary argument of those that think we should let him go now with no return. I don't know if the list of available FA outfielders posted earlier in this thread is accurate or exhaustive, but these are the names that were listed, as reasons that Alex Rios would not be desirable to a team looking for an outfielder: "Choo, Nelson Cruz, Ellsbury, McClouth, Pence, Granderson, and Corey Hart." Let's just take a second and look at this list more closely.

Choo is a good player. But is he significantly better than Rios? Choo is hitting .283 with 15 HR and 12 SB. Rios' respective numbers are .277, 12 and 26. Choo is a good player, but he is going to easily command over $10M a year anyway, and his numbers aren't much better than Rios.

Nelson Cruz can be a great hitter. But he is an admitted doper and has fought injuries.

Nate McLouth is garbage. Corey Hart has had one or two decent years and has otherwise primarily been injured.

Curtis Granderson is intriguing but has missed most of this season with injuries, and when he's played this year he's put together a .217 average.

Hunter Pence's numbers, again, are really not that different than Rios'. He's hitting .275 with 14 HRs and 17 SB.

So that leaves Ellsbury, who is clearly an elite leadoff man and will deserve the attention he gets. But that doesn't mean Alex Rios is worthless.

This is what annoys me, frankly. Several people in this thread have it in their head that Rios is worthless, and should be given away. That simply is not accurate. Look over that list above and tell me which outfielders you'd clearly rather have on your team over Alex Rios. Ellsbury, sure. But then where do you find significantly more production?

This whole thing, to me, reeks of meatheadedness. Dah, dat Alex Rios plays like he don't care - get rid of da bum! Dah, Toronto didn't want dat guy and Kenny Williams got stuck with him 'cause he's an idiot! This is our chance to get out!

Listen, Rios has frustrated me at times, too. But when you look at the situation objectively, there is no reason to rush to give him away right now. Thats the only thing I'm arguing. Look at the list above again - there will be a market for Rios this offseason. Right now the Rangers are a little bit over the barrel - don't help them out, as Hawk would say.
Excellent post my man!

And to those of you that keep saying that in the off-season Rios cannot be dealt because there are cheaper options, I ask you this: What's cheaper, Rios at 1/13 or 2/26 or Choo at 5/70 or Cruz at 3/45, etc... Most teams look at the total money of the deal, not the per year cost.
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  #143  
Old 08-08-2013, 11:00 PM
ZombieRob ZombieRob is online now
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Originally Posted by PalehosePlanet View Post
Excellent post my man!

And to those of you that keep saying that in the off-season Rios cannot be dealt because there are cheaper options, I ask you this: What's cheaper, Rios at 1/13 or 2/26 or Choo at 5/70 or Cruz at 3/45, etc... Most teams look at the total money of the deal, not the per year cost.
Doesn't have to be a FA signing. Teams can trade to improve and the Rangers have the bullets. We don't know who's going to be available on others teams.
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  #144  
Old 08-08-2013, 11:15 PM
canOcorn canOcorn is offline
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Originally Posted by PalehosePlanet View Post
Nick Martinez has a chance to be a good one, I'm actually okay w/that; I'm starting to be a Martin Perez non-believer; Luke Jackson looks good and would love to have him, but oh well...; and Odor we don't need because the only true organizational position depth the Sox have is at 2B.
Agreed. Martinez isn't some complete salary dump. I highly doubt we're going to do better without eating salary. This Profar/Taillon pie in the sky stuff is crazy, it's never going to happen.

I really don't care about the salary because it's going into Jerry's retirement fund, but the idea that the market is going to shrink this winter and that some team is going to give up an A prospect for one year of Rios is simply absurd. And the Sox aren't making the playoffs with or without Rios next year.

Sure, I wouldn't dump Rios for the return Kenny got, but even a decent prospect is the best to expect.
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  #145  
Old 08-08-2013, 11:21 PM
ZombieRob ZombieRob is online now
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Originally Posted by canOcorn View Post
Agreed. Martinez isn't some complete salary dump. I highly doubt we're going to do better without eating salary. This Profar/Taillon pie in the sky stuff is crazy, it's never going to happen.

I really don't care about the salary because it's going into Jerry's retirement fund, but the idea that the market is going to shrink this winter and that some team is going to give up an A prospect for one year of Rios is simply absurd. And the Sox aren't making the playoffs with or without Rios next year.

Sure, I wouldn't dump Rios for the return Kenny got, but even a decent prospect is the best to expect.
Good point. I think the Sox should take what they can get, and see what Brandon Jacobs and or Garcia can do.
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  #146  
Old 08-08-2013, 11:40 PM
LoveYourSuit LoveYourSuit is offline
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Sox fans just amaze me.

They would build statues for bum ass "folk heroes" like an Aaron Rowand but fail to see true 5 tool talent in a guy like Alex Rios.

Look, I'm all for trading the guy to rebuild this team. Same way I was all for trading away Jake Peavy. But wake the **** up. Alex Rios, even at the current price tag, is an asset for this team. You just don't give him away.

One thing I appreciate about Hahn is that he's not looking to make moves just to appease the (stupid) masses.
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  #147  
Old 08-08-2013, 11:57 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Sox fans just amaze me.

They would build statues for bum ass "folk heroes" like an Aaron Rowand but fail to see true 5 tool talent in a guy like Alex Rios.

Look, I'm all for trading the guy to rebuild this team. Same way I was all for trading away Jake Peavy. But wake the **** up. Alex Rios, even at the current price tag, is an asset for this team. You just don't give him away.

One thing I appreciate about Hahn is that he's not looking to make moves just to appease the (stupid) masses.
Agreed. I don't love Rios, but he is a valuable player.

The situation where the White Sox got him for free and this waiver period are not even close.
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  #148  
Old 08-09-2013, 12:12 AM
lpneck lpneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Sox fans just amaze me.

They would build statues for bum ass "folk heroes" like an Aaron Rowand but fail to see true 5 tool talent in a guy like Alex Rios.

Look, I'm all for trading the guy to rebuild this team. Same way I was all for trading away Jake Peavy. But wake the **** up. Alex Rios, even at the current price tag, is an asset for this team. You just don't give him away.

One thing I appreciate about Hahn is that he's not looking to make moves just to appease the (stupid) masses.
Aaron Rowand 5 years with White Sox: .283/.337/.451 + WS title (total salary with Sox- about $3M)

Alex Rios 5 years with White Sox: .269/.310/.430 + 0 playoff games (total salary with Sox- about $45M + $17M owed)
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  #149  
Old 08-09-2013, 12:18 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post

The situation where the White Sox got him for free and this waiver period are not even close.
Exactly and the free part is most significant. No one has any idea if the money spent for Rios salary during his Sox tenure would have been used in a more significant way to help the team. (It may not have even been spent) A return now makes the original deal even a bigger plus deal.
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  #150  
Old 08-09-2013, 12:24 AM
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FielderJones FielderJones is offline
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Originally Posted by Over By There View Post
This whole thing, to me, reeks of meatheadedness. Dah, dat Alex Rios plays like he don't care - get rid of da bum! Dah, Toronto didn't want dat guy and Kenny Williams got stuck with him 'cause he's an idiot! This is our chance to get out!
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