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  #1  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:38 PM
hawkjt hawkjt is offline
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Default The Sox Future....

I was listening to B & B today,(I know, they drive me nuts also),and Berstein was discussing the future of the White Sox with his ''sources'' with the organization last nite,and he came away unusually positive,especially for him.

We all know he is one of the biggest naysayers around,but after questioning one of his supposed insiders at the Sox he had this to offer:

1. The Sox will only have around 60 million committed to payroll next year,and if Rios and or Dunn getting moved it will be even less.
2 The following year they will only have like 38 million committed to payroll.
3. They have one of the rare commodities in baseball...a true #1 starter,locked up for 7 years at cheap prices.
4. They have other reliable and cheap starters in Quintana and Santiago and then of course Danks....so they do have a rotation that can be servicable immediately.
5. They will have money,which in the new paradigm, is the currency in which you can add young talent with deals that take overpriced guys from other teams,and absorb some salary,but only if they add prospects.

Bernstein is usually extremely negative about the Sox hopes of quickly rebuilding,and in total love with Theo and the Cubs plan but today he actually turned on a dime and said he thinks the Sox have a workable plan for a reasonably quick turnaround.

He is having Rick Hahn on today at 5:30 pm ,and said he will try to get Hahn on the record with his plan for restoring the Sox quickly.
Now, we all know that Hahn is not going to advertise his plan much,but could make for some interesting listening.

Of course,the trick is to actually trade for and sign the right guys.
But, the signing of Sale was a key move.
Call me crazy,but I think Hahn can get the Sox competitive by 2015.
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  #2  
Old 08-07-2013, 05:43 PM
amsteel amsteel is online now
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The sooner the Tigers win a WS and consequentially stop spending, the sooner the Sox are contenders in the ALC.
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  #3  
Old 08-07-2013, 05:49 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkjt View Post
5. They will have money,which in the new paradigm, is the currency in which you can add young talent with deals that take overpriced guys from other teams,and absorb some salary,but only if they add prospects.
Regarding this new paradigm, when will it start?
When has a team traded a player with a bad contract plus prospects for essentially nothing in return?
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  #4  
Old 08-07-2013, 06:04 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Regarding this new paradigm, when will it start?
When has a team traded a player with a bad contract plus prospects for essentially nothing in return?
I was thinking the same thing. This is basically buying prospects from other teams. Every team in MLB makes money so I dont see why a club would sell prospects and only get money in return. Maybe Im missing something here.
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  #5  
Old 08-07-2013, 06:32 PM
hawkjt hawkjt is offline
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Look at the proposed deals with the Rangers on Rios....supposedly, the Rangers would offer better prospects if the Sox pick up some of Rios salary.

Teams that have bad deals on their books, might be willing to throw in prospects to get the Sox to pick up more of the money from the bad deal.

If we trade Dunn,and agree to pick up half of the salary,we get better prospects in the deal.

Look at the Angels,Dodgers,and other teams with huge payrolls...they might want to dump some of that bad contract,and willing to toss in some prospects to get rid of them.
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  #6  
Old 08-07-2013, 07:09 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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This has never happened and probably isn't right around the corner considering prospects are at an all time high value wise and each team gets a lot more money next year. Bernstein wrote an article about this on the score website and you will see reading it that he is way off base, even mentioning salary cap, which doesn't exist in MLB. Why would the Sox eat eight figures for a middle of the road prospect? Besides, if this was the Sox plan, why didn't they do it with Peavy or Rios? Word was, they would eat zero.

It seems Bernstein thinks the Sox play in the NBA.

I wonder if the guy Bernstein says he speaks to is an alter ego like Hawk is to Ken Harrelson.

Last edited by dickallen15; 08-07-2013 at 07:19 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-07-2013, 07:36 PM
SouthSideMike SouthSideMike is offline
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I got a bit of a laugh out of Bernstein's article. It's really ludicrous to be honest.

Quote:
Financial elasticity is becoming a new market inequity in MLB, allowing creative teams more options for accelerated improvement as they take advantage of opponents laden with large, unproductive contracts.
Does he even know what he's saying here? Or is he just did he just flip through an econ textbook and pick a couple phrases to use?

And did he really mention TARP in the context of a baseball article?

Why would a team be willing to take on bad contracts just for the sake of getting prospects? How about just building your scouting system and player development and having solid drafts? Or you could just trade your own pieces you deem expendable to add prospects to your system.

And more importantly, why would other teams dump prospects just to get rid of a high priced player? Seems counter intuitive considering they'd be getting rid of veteran players AND their potential replacements simply for a bit of salary relief. Really makes no sense.

Last edited by SouthSideMike; 08-07-2013 at 10:53 PM.
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  #8  
Old 08-07-2013, 08:09 PM
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roylestillman roylestillman is online now
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I agree with 1-4 and I think it is huge in giving the Sox the flexibility to make some major moves. It's the difference between the Sox and the Cubs, who had to wait until salary cleared before starting their rebuild. I don't get 5 and without an example of a club giving up an overpriced veteran and some prospects, I just don't see it. It reminds me of bygone days of the St. Louis Browns selling players to make payroll. No team is that desperate anymore.
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  #9  
Old 08-07-2013, 11:37 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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While 1 and 2 are based on facts of who the Sox currently have on the books for the future, as anyone can peruse here, it says nothing to me of what their plans are for the future.
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  #10  
Old 08-08-2013, 09:58 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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I don't know if anybody has noticed but I don't think the 2013 White Sox attendance has been all that bad this year. There averaging 23,277 which puts them on a pace for 1.8 million this year. When you stop and think that it rained the first 3 months of the season(bad weather) and the White Sox are in last place, I think there attendance has been quite good, all things considered. I would like to think that the lowering of the tickets has had a positive effect on attendance this 2013 season. There are still some problems that I see. Most people still don't want to sit in the upper deck. Other teams with that same issue have simply lowered the ticket prices in the upper deck. The Tampa Bay Rays charge $12 for any seat in the upper deck. Wouldn't it make more sense for the White Sox to charge $12 for every seat in the upper deck at the Cell? Having one set cheap price in the upper deck would be a good PR move for the White Sox. It would also attract more fans to the games. The more fans at the games usually means more money spent on concessions and parking.
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  #11  
Old 08-08-2013, 09:59 AM
24thStFan 24thStFan is offline
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I'm certainly not the most patient person, and I'd love the Sox to be competitive in the near future, but I don't trust White Sox management to sign productive free agents. So I'm OK with them getting prospects, even if it means paying some of Rios' or Dunn's salary.
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  #12  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:35 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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I don't buy this "take prospects with bloated contracts" idea. Is there any case in recent history where someone did this? MLB is a copycat league, and this strategy has not shown to be successful. Plus I don't see Hahn taking bad contracts now that he's finally clearing payroll, even if we get a few "B" prospects in the deal(s).

IMO, the Sox are going to have to spend on hitters this offseason, as we have a very weak team without them, and none of our impact prospects are close to ready other than Garcia.

We should try to move Rios before Sept 1st regardless of the return. We should still be able to get something decent for him.

I see a opening day lineup of:

RF: DeAza
2B : Beckham
CF: Garcia
DH: Dunn (nobody is taking his contract until next deadline)
1B: <free agent>
LF: <free agent> or Viciedo
3B: <free agent> or Keppinger
SS: Ramirez
C: Phegley

And I'm not talking about the top free agents either, though Granderson and Morneau at below-market deals due to injury risk would be tasty. The Sox could add some good bats for at market prices in January after the big names have signed.
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  #13  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:39 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
DH: Dunn (nobody is taking his contract until next deadline)
Are people not aware that Dunn and Rios, at this point, are basically owed the same amount of money?
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  #14  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:40 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Are people not aware that Dunn and Rios, at this point, are basically owed the same amount of money?
Rios is a better hitter, he's earning his contract and he could help push a playoff team over the edge. Dunn is none of those things.
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  #15  
Old 08-08-2013, 10:40 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Rios is a better hitter, he's earning his contract and he could help push a playoff team over the edge. Dunn is none of those things.
Haven't been watching much this year?

EDIT - Should note, I'm not saying I think Dunn is going to get moved, I just don't think anyone is going to take Rios, either. He's been a whole lot of bad this year.
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