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  #61  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:40 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by soxfanreggie View Post
I'm looking for Peavy to actually pitch an entire season, something we haven't seen much of during his tenure with the Sox. Do you honestly think he'll be healthy all of 2014? Even if he is, do you think we'll have enough to seriously contend in 2014?
You mean like 32 starts and 219 IP, as he did last season?
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  #62  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:55 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
You mean like 32 starts and 219 IP, as he did last season?
And that would be the only year out of the 4 that he has been with us that he was healthy all season. I think that's enough to say we haven't seen that all that much.
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  #63  
Old 07-24-2013, 07:42 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
And that would be the only year out of the 4 that he has been with us that he was healthy all season. I think that's enough to say we haven't seen that all that much.
He has actually pitched an entire season for the Sox, though. That's all.
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  #64  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:28 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by rdivaldi View Post
That pretty much sums it up.

I have never found any of his write-ups to be particularly insightful, nor do I find his scouting to be anything more than ordinary.
Keith Law is a smart guy and he knows his role at ESPN is to write inflammatory bull**** to generate pageviews and Insider subscriptions. I sincerely have a hard time believing he genuinely thinks what he writes most of the time. It's easy to not take him very seriously, not just because of his obvious vendetta against the Sox (though, proclaiming their farm system bad the last few years isn't exactly going out on a limb there), it's just because of his super aggressive, in your face kind of attitude when even a casual baseball observer can see that anyone who thinks they have an infallible opinion when it comes to baseball prospects is crazy.

That said, if Law was half as good of a talent evaluator as he thinks he is, he wouldn't be buried behind a paywall at ESPN.
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  #65  
Old 07-25-2013, 10:23 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
It's not a matter of being obsessed with the Cubs. Garza was probably the best pitcher available on the trade market. Now that he's off the board, Peavy is probably the best pitcher available.

At this point, it's perfectly reasonable to ask whether the Sox should pull the trigger on a Peavy deal if they get an offer similar to the one the Cubs got for Garza.

My answer is no, because I disagree with the idea that the Cubs got a "great haul." It's only a great haul because "Theo" was the one pulling the trigger on the deal.
This is a fun thing to throw around instead of backing up your position.
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  #66  
Old 07-26-2013, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
This is a fun thing to throw around instead of backing up your position.
In this trade, the Cubs received:
1. A 3B who is hitting .213 with 92 Ks in 273 ABs at AAA.
2. A second-year pro who has never pitched above A-ball.
3. A starting pitcher who had an ERA over 6 in 17 starts with Texas.

This is a "great haul" for what reason? I believe the onus is on you to prove your point.
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  #67  
Old 07-26-2013, 05:14 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
In this trade, the Cubs received:
1. A 3B who is hitting .213 with 92 Ks in 273 ABs at AAA.
2. A second-year pro who has never pitched above A-ball.
3. A starting pitcher who had an ERA over 6 in 17 starts with Texas.

This is a "great haul" for what reason? I believe the onus is on you to prove your point.
I don't know whether this is a great haul or a crap haul, but as to points two and three:

2) Doesn't mean anything. At one point, Randy Johnson and Greg Maddux were second year pros who had never pitched above A-ball.

3) Again, doesn't really mean anything other than the starting pitcher has struggled in his first taste at MLB. Doesn't say much about whether he'll be any good 2-5 years from now. The guy they traded away for these prospects was pretty bad in his first call up as well, granted over only 9 starts.
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  #68  
Old 07-26-2013, 05:47 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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2) Doesn't mean anything. At one point, Randy Johnson and Greg Maddux were second year pros who had never pitched above A-ball.
By that logic, obtaining any low-level prospect is a great move, because they could become a HOFer.
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  #69  
Old 07-26-2013, 06:21 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
By that logic, obtaining any low-level prospect is a great move, because they could become a HOFer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Doesn't mean anything
Maybe I'm not much of a logician, but I'm not sure how you could logically turn "doesn't mean anything" into "obtaining any low-level prospect is a great move".
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  #70  
Old 07-26-2013, 07:16 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
In this trade, the Cubs received:
1. A 3B who is hitting .213 with 92 Ks in 273 ABs at AAA.
2. A second-year pro who has never pitched above A-ball.
3. A starting pitcher who had an ERA over 6 in 17 starts with Texas.

This is a "great haul" for what reason? I believe the onus is on you to prove your point.
1) Is a guy who has battle vision problems all season. If you want to say a former top prospect is now a bum because of a 273 at bat sample size during which he has had to see multiple eye specialists, go ahead. I am going to say he is much closer to the guy who did this the three years prior:
.293/.390/.464
.264/.381/.500
.288/.398/.579

Not like this guy was trending downward before the season started.

2) Sure he's a low A prospect but he's got good stuff and in a limited sample size has been great. He's got a plus fastball and a plus curve ball.

3) Grimm is just a major league body, not worth mentioning. But I believe the Cubs will be receiving Neil Ramirez as the Player to be named later.

I will be thrilled if we can bring back a potential impact player of Olt's caliber in a Peavy trade.
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  #71  
Old 07-26-2013, 08:59 PM
rdivaldi rdivaldi is offline
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
I will be thrilled if we can bring back a potential impact player of Olt's caliber in a Peavy trade.
A 24/25 year-old prospect that projects to be a low average, high K, all or nothing hitter? Yeah, I'm sure we'd all be thrilled.
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  #72  
Old 07-26-2013, 11:18 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
Maybe I'm not much of a logician, but I'm not sure how you could logically turn "doesn't mean anything" into "obtaining any low-level prospect is a great move".
You conveniently ignored this part: "At one point, Randy Johnson and Greg Maddux were second year pros who had never pitched above A-ball."

I can easily turn that into "any prospect can turn into a hall of fame pitcher."
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  #73  
Old 07-27-2013, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
1) Is a guy who has battle vision problems all season. If you want to say a former top prospect is now a bum because of a 273 at bat sample size during which he has had to see multiple eye specialists, go ahead. I am going to say he is much closer to the guy who did this the three years prior:
.293/.390/.464
.264/.381/.500
.288/.398/.579

Not like this guy was trending downward before the season started.

2) Sure he's a low A prospect but he's got good stuff and in a limited sample size has been great. He's got a plus fastball and a plus curve ball.

3) Grimm is just a major league body, not worth mentioning. But I believe the Cubs will be receiving Neil Ramirez as the Player to be named later.

I will be thrilled if we can bring back a potential impact player of Olt's caliber in a Peavy trade.
That makes one of us. If Hahn adds another all-or-nothing "prospect" to this organization in exchange for Peavy, the pitchforks and torches will be out. And rightfully so.
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  #74  
Old 07-27-2013, 11:04 AM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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A .390 OBP in the minors is all or nothing.


alrighty then.
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  #75  
Old 07-27-2013, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
A .390 OBP in the minors is all or nothing.


alrighty then.
He strikes out once every 3.8 plate appearances against minor-league pitching.

Adam Dunn has struck out once every 3.5 plate appearances during his career, but at least that was against MLB pitching.

And Olt's career OBP is .374, not .390. These statistics are readily available and not hard to look up.
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