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  #121  
Old 07-23-2013, 09:32 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
When Samardzija was Santiago's age, he wasn't any more successful than Santiago. I have a feeling you would think a lot more of Hector if he were a Cub or a Tiger. Then his k rate, batting average against, ERA, would all come into play, but because he is a White Sox, for some reason you have to let everyone know he will fail.
Or, you know, it could come from the fact that Samardzija was a first round pick, throws harder, has better control, and has better command. He has a four seam fastball he can place anywhere and is one of the few guys to get rise out of it. He has two breaking pitches, a slider and a splitter, that are both plus pitches that have a dramatic velocity differential from his fastballs. He can throw both for a strike or get people to chase them out of the zone pretty much at will. And he throws a cutter around the same speed than Santiago throws straight four seamers.

Knock this nonsense off. I don't dislike Santiago, but dude isn't a top pitcher. Calling into question my loyalties because I won't look at things with rose colored glasses is pathetic. Santiago isn't Samardzija, or even close to it.
  #122  
Old 07-23-2013, 09:35 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Or, you know, it could come from the fact that Samardzija was a first round pick, throws harder, has better control, and has better command. He has a four seam fastball he can place anywhere and is one of the few guys to get rise out of it. He has two breaking pitches, a slider and a splitter, that are both plus pitches that have a dramatic velocity differential from his fastballs. He can throw both for a strike or get people to chase them out of the zone pretty much at will. And he throws a cutter around the same speed than Santiago throws straight four seamers.

Knock this nonsense off. I don't dislike Santiago, but dude isn't a top pitcher. Calling into question my loyalties because I won't look at things with rose colored glasses is pathetic. Santiago isn't Samardzija, or even close to it.
If he can put the ball anywhere, why is his ERA 3.91 this year and 4.05 for his career? Why does where someone is drafted trump actual results?
  #123  
Old 07-23-2013, 09:42 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
If he can put the ball anywhere, why is his ERA 3.91 this year and 4.05 for his career? Why does where someone is drafted trump actual results?
Less than half a season worth of starts, many of which are first time through lineups, is the sample size you're arguing for a guy with essentially two pitches, one being a straight fastball he has trouble locating and the other a trick pitch screwball that isn't even plus. Hitters just haven't seen one in a while, unless he improves it they're going to catch on.

If you wanted to make a case that one of our young guys would be more than a back end rotation guy, you're picking the wrong kid.

Before someone chimes in about his sinker/splitter whatever that is or the occassional cutter, he barely throws it and it's garbage.
  #124  
Old 07-23-2013, 09:52 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Less than half a season worth of starts, many of which are first time through lineups, is the sample size you're arguing for a guy with essentially two pitches, one being a straight fastball he has trouble locating and the other a trick pitch screwball that isn't even plus. Hitters just haven't seen one in a while, unless he improves it they're going to catch on.

If you wanted to make a case that one of our young guys would be more than a back end rotation guy, you're picking the wrong kid.

Before someone chimes in about his sinker/splitter whatever that is or the occassional cutter, he barely throws it and it's garbage.
Santiago will be a back end rotation guy with the White Sox since they have good starters. But he would be an ace for the Cubs now that Garza is gone.
  #125  
Old 07-23-2013, 09:56 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Santiago will be a back end rotation guy with the White Sox since they have good starters. But he would be an ace for the Cubs now that Garza is gone.


I give up.
  #126  
Old 07-23-2013, 09:58 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Santiago will be a back end rotation guy with the White Sox since they have good starters. But he would be an ace for the Cubs now that Garza is gone.
Where a guy profiles has absolutely nothing to do with the rotation he is a part of.
  #127  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:31 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Less than half a season worth of starts, many of which are first time through lineups, is the sample size you're arguing for a guy with essentially two pitches, one being a straight fastball he has trouble locating and the other a trick pitch screwball that isn't even plus. Hitters just haven't seen one in a while, unless he improves it they're going to catch on.

If you wanted to make a case that one of our young guys would be more than a back end rotation guy, you're picking the wrong kid.

Before someone chimes in about his sinker/splitter whatever that is or the occassional cutter, he barely throws it and it's garbage.
He has 170 career innings. It isn't his first time around the league. But let me get this straight. Samardjiza has far better stuff, way better command, is basically unhittable, all Santiago has is a straight fastball and a garbage pitch. Explain to me how Santiago allows fewer baserunners, a lower batting average against, a lower ERA and a higher K rate all while pitching in the AL.
  #128  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:44 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
He has 170 career innings. It isn't his first time around the league. But let me get this straight. Samardjiza has far better stuff, way better command, is basically unhittable, all Santiago has is a straight fastball and a garbage pitch. Explain to me how Santiago allows fewer baserunners, a lower batting average against, a lower ERA and a higher K rate all while pitching in the AL.
Because he spent most of his time last year as a reliever, and spent significant time this year doing that as well. He's only made 12 starts this year. Being basically two pitch pitcher, one being a trick pitch, is way more effective in relief and spot starts. He walks more than 4 batters per nine and based on his career numbers would give up in the neighborhood of 30 longballs in a 35 start season. He's going to be a high 4, low 5 era pitcher if he's allowed to start exclusively all year.
  #129  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:53 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Because he spent most of his time last year as a reliever, and spent significant time this year doing that as well. He's only made 12 starts this year. Being basically two pitch pitcher, one being a trick pitch, is way more effective in relief and spot starts. He walks more than 4 batters per nine and based on his career numbers would give up in the neighborhood of 30 longballs in a 35 start season. He's going to be a high 4, low 5 era pitcher if he's allowed to start exclusively all year.
How was Smardzija after 12 starts? I will give you a hint, not as good as Santiago. Santiago's ERA is under 3.00 as a starter. Not bad for a guy with his walk rate who supposedly only features a straight fastball and garbage trick pitch. You haven't been able to explain his K rate.

Last edited by dickallen15; 07-23-2013 at 10:58 PM.
  #130  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:56 PM
balke balke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
He has 170 career innings. It isn't his first time around the league. But let me get this straight. Samardjiza has far better stuff, way better command, is basically unhittable, all Santiago has is a straight fastball and a garbage pitch. Explain to me how Santiago allows fewer baserunners, a lower batting average against, a lower ERA and a higher K rate all while pitching in the AL.
First, you guys are comparing a lefty and a righty.

Second, Santiago has played half the season as a reliever. 131IP (Shark) up against 87IP (Santiago). Pretty useless comparison of players really.

I do think there are often times the best hyped pitchers remains hyped though, while some guys just go out and get results.
  #131  
Old 07-23-2013, 11:10 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Originally Posted by balke View Post
First, you guys are comparing a lefty and a righty.

Second, Santiago has played half the season as a reliever. 131IP (Shark) up against 87IP (Santiago). Pretty useless comparison of players really.

I do think there are often times the best hyped pitchers remains hyped though, while some guys just go out and get results.
And at the same stage in their careers Santiago outperformed him. Samardjiza was a relievee for several seasons and only has about 300 innings as a starter.
  #132  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:14 PM
WhiffleBall WhiffleBall is offline
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Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 27m
CWS have exchanged trade ideas/offers on Peavy, but teams say they are unsure about whether they want to keep him for '14. Price tag high.
  #133  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:21 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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FOX Sports' Jon Morosi reports that the Rangers have expressed interest in Alejandro De Aza.

Texas is also courting White Sox outfielder Alex Rios. De Aza, 29, is batting .275/.332/.437 with 12 homers and 11 stolen bases in 93 games this season for Chicago. He carries more years of contractual control than Rios but Rios has the better offensive track record. As always, it's going to come down to the asking price.
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  #134  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:23 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
FOX Sports' Jon Morosi reports that the Rangers have expressed interest in Alejandro De Aza.

Texas is also courting White Sox outfielder Alex Rios. De Aza, 29, is batting .275/.332/.437 with 12 homers and 11 stolen bases in 93 games this season for Chicago. He carries more years of contractual control than Rios but Rios has the better offensive track record. As always, it's going to come down to the asking price.
More info on the De Aza/Rios to the Rangers rumors:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/0...alex-rios.html
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  #135  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:23 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
FOX Sports' Jon Morosi reports that the Rangers have expressed interest in Alejandro De Aza.

Texas is also courting White Sox outfielder Alex Rios. De Aza, 29, is batting .275/.332/.437 with 12 homers and 11 stolen bases in 93 games this season for Chicago. He carries more years of contractual control than Rios but Rios has the better offensive track record. As always, it's going to come down to the asking price.
I know he struggles defensively but I wouldn't give him away. 275/337/437 is pretty good for this team.
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