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  #331  
Old 07-17-2013, 01:49 AM
cards press box cards press box is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
It's time to cut Hahn loose, it's obvious he doesn't have the ability to judge young talent.
Isn't this the same Rick Hahn that just signed Chris Sale to a team friendly long term contract? And I have no problem with the team showing patience with Viciedo. After the fine 2012 season he had, don't the Sox have to show some patience with him? As for Flowers, the Sox seem to know that he is not the answer behind the plate.

I think Rick Hahn knows what he is doing.

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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Here's my Monday morning quarterbacking:

The Sox were doomed by their hot July performance in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Had KW dismantled the team at the deadline in any of those years, we would be in a better place today.
You are not that far off. The Sox were buyers in all the seasons you list and maybe didn't make the moves for the future that they could have. But in that regard, the Sox over performed in 2012 and that led to more moves for the present in 2012. The 2012 season perhaps also led the Sox to thinking they were better than they actually are in 2013.
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  #332  
Old 07-17-2013, 02:22 AM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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I don't think there is such a thing as this mystic "total rebuild". Can't really think of a team that has ever done it. Dealing Sale, with that contract, at this point would be insane for anything less than the top 4 prospects from a top 10 system. That ain't happening these days. I'm actually with munchy on this one. The "rebuild" probably needs to be in the front office. The Sox scouting of young players the last decade has ABSOLUTELY been the primary reason we find ourselves in this situation now. Not bad trades, not bad signings (though those don't help). The Sox have been downright horrible at drafting, and it has left them in a very tough situation. We need much, much better scouting. The Sox ONE hit was a dominant starting pitcher who basically fell into their laps and has been way healthier than many expected. That isn't enough. The only part of any of the front office/coaching team I want to hold onto is the Herm Schneider/Don Cooper combo. Those two have kept pitchers healthy at an unprecedented rate compared to their contemporaries. So much so, that a lot of other mistakes have flown under the radar.
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  #333  
Old 07-17-2013, 09:36 AM
Golden Sox Golden Sox is offline
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I've found out a long time ago when something isn't working, the sooner you make a change the better off you're going to be. Adam Dunn was signed by the White Sox to hit. He had a .250 batting average in the NL. His average with the White Sox has been .190. Other than hit an occasional home run he hasn't produced here. Start the rebuilding process by moving Dunn off the team. If the bad guys on the Northside were able to move Milton Bradley and Carlos Zambrano off their team, the White Sox should be able to move Dunn. I realize there's going to be some pain involved in moving him, (we'll probably have to pay some if not most of his salary) but lets get the rebuilding process going by getting him off of the White Sox. Does anybody want to see him on this team again?
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  #334  
Old 07-17-2013, 10:00 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
I've found out a long time ago when something isn't working, the sooner you make a change the better off you're going to be. Adam Dunn was signed by the White Sox to hit. He had a .250 batting average in the NL. His average with the White Sox has been .190. Other than hit an occasional home run he hasn't produced here. Start the rebuilding process by moving Dunn off the team. If the bad guys on the Northside were able to move Milton Bradley and Carlos Zambrano off their team, the White Sox should be able to move Dunn. I realize there's going to be some pain involved in moving him, (we'll probably have to pay some if not most of his salary) but lets get the rebuilding process going by getting him off of the White Sox. Does anybody want to see him on this team again?
The thing is that Bradley and Zambrano were not only bad producers but jerks to be around...complaining and all of that.
Is Dunn like that? If not, why just cut him? We don't have another DH and getting a DH really shouldn't be high on the priority list when we have defensive positions to fill. As we bring talent in, and some fall by the wayside because of defensive issues, they can play DH and we can move Dunn out. Take his 40 homers until we find something better.
Similarly with catcher, don't waste resources finding a McCann. Just get a defensive catcher in here and live with the offensive hole for a while. Offense is easier to fill elsewhere.
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  #335  
Old 07-17-2013, 10:07 AM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
I've found out a long time ago when something isn't working, the sooner you make a change the better off you're going to be. Adam Dunn was signed by the White Sox to hit. He had a .250 batting average in the NL. His average with the White Sox has been .190. Other than hit an occasional home run he hasn't produced here. Start the rebuilding process by moving Dunn off the team. If the bad guys on the Northside were able to move Milton Bradley and Carlos Zambrano off their team, the White Sox should be able to move Dunn. I realize there's going to be some pain involved in moving him, (we'll probably have to pay some if not most of his salary) but lets get the rebuilding process going by getting him off of the White Sox. Does anybody want to see him on this team again?
I do. I'll take the guy hitting .200 on pace for 40 HRs and 100 RBIs over the alternatives of Wise, Baby Danks, or some other AAA-AAAA bum that would replace him. Unless you are going to get anything in return, why not? You're paying the salary either way, it is a sunk cost at this point.
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  #336  
Old 07-17-2013, 03:56 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by cards press box View Post
Isn't this the same Rick Hahn that just signed Chris Sale to a team friendly long term contract? And I have no problem with the team showing patience with Viciedo. After the fine 2012 season he had, don't the Sox have to show some patience with him? As for Flowers, the Sox seem to know that he is not the answer behind the plate.

I think Rick Hahn knows what he is doing.
Viciedo isn't the answer either. He's getting a raise next season on the $2.8M he's making this year and will be going into his first Boras hardball arb eligibility the following offseason.

I'd rather see a young cost-controlled player with upside in LF or 1B or DH or where ever they have Viciedo penciled in rather than continue to drop payroll on a guy who can't take a pitch, go the other way, adjust or otherwise improve as a hitter.

At least with Flowers, he's cheap.
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  #337  
Old 07-17-2013, 04:09 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Viciedo isn't the answer either. He's getting a raise next season on the $2.8M he's making this year and will be going into his first Boras hardball arb eligibility the following offseason.

I'd rather see a young cost-controlled player with upside in LF or 1B or DH or where ever they have Viciedo penciled in rather than continue to drop payroll on a guy who can't take a pitch, go the other way, adjust or otherwise improve as a hitter.

At least with Flowers, he's cheap.

And the Sox are already into Viciedo for 13M, thats quite a bit for very little return.
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  #338  
Old 07-17-2013, 04:15 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
I do. I'll take the guy hitting .200 on pace for 40 HRs and 100 RBIs over the alternatives of Wise, Baby Danks, or some other AAA-AAAA bum that would replace him. Unless you are going to get anything in return, why not? You're paying the salary either way, it is a sunk cost at this point.
As much as it pains me, yes, I'd keep Dunn around too. Unlike 'clubhouse cancers' - I don't think getting rid of Dunn will result in 'addition by subtraction.' Unless someone would be willing to pick up a big part of his salary and/or give the Sox a decent prospect or two, it really doesn't make sense. He's not blocking someone promising young stud in the minors.
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