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  #31  
Old 07-13-2013, 10:45 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Didn't you suggest that the Sox trade Crede, Garland and someone else for Weaver the First, back in the day? It's not all stuff.
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  #32  
Old 07-13-2013, 10:50 AM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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Originally Posted by dickallen15 View Post
Yes, and you were just as wrong as anyone who thought the Sox would contend. You went on and on about Rondon. You constantly tell everyone what scouts say but totally ignored what they said when the Tigers said last winter Rondon would be their closer. They said he could throw one pitch for a strike and would be a disaster. Guess what, he throws one pitch for a strike. He also has packed on 85 pounds since he was signed 4 years ago.

Again, why don't you bet me about the 100 losses you thin the Sox will have this year?
Packing on 85 pounds...closer...anyone else have visions of Bobby Jenks reading this?

If we're trading Rios, we might as well trade Peavy and take the near $30 million in salary savings to invest for the future. If you're giving up one of your best offensive players and not going to bring in some FAs, why keep Peavy unless you think what we'll put together in 2014 is a contender.
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  #33  
Old 07-13-2013, 10:56 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Didn't you suggest that the Sox trade Crede, Garland and someone else for Weaver the First, back in the day? It's not all stuff.
No.
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  #34  
Old 07-13-2013, 02:58 PM
TDog TDog is online now
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Hopefully he's talking about ready now, impact guys. And when he can't get those guys, he lowers his price to impact guys, ready later. We don't need any more Dannny Richars or Zack Stewarts on this squad.
The problem is that if you are trading veterans at the deadline to contenders, you are unlikely to get impact players in return. It really doesn't matter how good a GM you are at that point. The trade value is higher in the offseason, although you might find someone who has fallen out of favor with most talent evaluators who turns out to be a surprise. You can only hope Jacobs fits into that category. Danny Richars didn't. Zach Stewart didn't, although he appeared he might after one great game against the Twins.

And of course, if you trade your veterans for players who are two, three, four years away from helping your team, you are going to lose more games this year (and next if you don't make upgrades in the offseason, which you probably could have made regardless) than if you had not traded your veterans.
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  #35  
Old 07-13-2013, 05:36 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Stop putting words in my mouth. I did not think the Tigers WOULD set the record, I said they COULD. I didn't say Rondon WOULD be a dominating closer either or that he was one of the greatest prospects in the game (which you've also accused me of). How many times do I have to correct you. This is getting to be slander.
One could say *anything* "could" happen and always be right. The world *could* end after I type this sentence. Oh, it didn't, but I was right!

Slander? Do you even know the definition?
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  #36  
Old 07-13-2013, 05:59 PM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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One could say *anything* "could" happen and always be right. The world *could* end after I type this sentence. Oh, it didn't, but I was right!

Slander? Do you even know the definition?
I think he means libel, but gentlemen, can we turn our focus to the future moves the Sox will be making to try and improve our future.
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  #37  
Old 07-13-2013, 05:59 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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Originally Posted by soxfanreggie View Post
Packing on 85 pounds...closer...anyone else have visions of Bobby Jenks reading this?

If we're trading Rios, we might as well trade Peavy and take the near $30 million in salary savings to invest for the future. If you're giving up one of your best offensive players and not going to bring in some FAs, why keep Peavy unless you think what we'll put together in 2014 is a contender.
If there's one thing I have learned as a Sox fan, it is that payroll and revenues have little to no correlation on this team no matter what Kenny Williams says.
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  #38  
Old 07-13-2013, 08:35 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
One could say *anything* "could" happen and always be right. The world *could* end after I type this sentence. Oh, it didn't, but I was right!

Slander? Do you even know the definition?
Yeah but I wasn't championing the argument like it was going to happen. I said it was possible, so thinking we were going to compete with them was laughable. Our best outcome was worse than their worst outcome. FWIW, my BEST outcome for us was in the 75 win range.
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  #39  
Old 07-14-2013, 07:17 AM
soxfanreggie soxfanreggie is offline
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If there's one thing I have learned as a Sox fan, it is that payroll and revenues have little to no correlation on this team no matter what Kenny Williams says.
I was hoping more like we'd drop payroll in 2014 to give an extra $10-15 mil in 2015. That or throwing extra $$$ at Int'l guys or adding a year or two to some contracts.

Maybe Floyd can be signed on the cheap to try for the 5th starter role. If Peavy is traded, we'll have an opening and not sure if we'll have anybody in the system then to try as a starter.
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  #40  
Old 07-14-2013, 02:16 PM
Wedema Wedema is offline
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Originally Posted by soxfanreggie View Post
I was hoping more like we'd drop payroll in 2014 to give an extra $10-15 mil in 2015. That or throwing extra $$$ at Int'l guys or adding a year or two to some contracts.

Maybe Floyd can be signed on the cheap to try for the 5th starter role. If Peavy is traded, we'll have an opening and not sure if we'll have anybody in the system then to try as a starter.

No way do they bring Floyd back as Johnson seems ready to go.
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  #41  
Old 07-14-2013, 03:38 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
The problem is that if you are trading veterans at the deadline to contenders, you are unlikely to get impact players in return. It really doesn't matter how good a GM you are at that point. The trade value is higher in the offseason, although you might find someone who has fallen out of favor with most talent evaluators who turns out to be a surprise. You can only hope Jacobs fits into that category. Danny Richars didn't. Zach Stewart didn't, although he appeared he might after one great game against the Twins.

And of course, if you trade your veterans for players who are two, three, four years away from helping your team, you are going to lose more games this year (and next if you don't make upgrades in the offseason, which you probably could have made regardless) than if you had not traded your veterans.
Then so be it. Get players with upside. We should be scouting Arizona's farm clubs, not the ML club for some failed prospect in the back of their pen. I would prefer we not do any deals with teams, like Arizona, that are friends with Kenny anyway. We've done enough give-aways.
Looks like Peavy had a decent rehab start. 1 run over 5 innings, albeit a sturdy 90 pitches.
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  #42  
Old 07-14-2013, 04:37 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I would not be opposed to getting Randall Delgado back. Its hard to call a 23 year old kid with a 3.90 ERA and a 6:1 K:BB Ratio a bust....He is a solid young pitcher and I think would be a good Cooper Project.

For those of you clamoring for a quick rebuild, starting with Sale-Delgado and then hoping some of the mid rotation prospects we have like Johnson and Beck work out, along with back end acceptable pitchers like Quintana and Santiago, its a good way to go. It is cost effective and lets you use money and other areas to rebuild the offense.
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  #43  
Old 07-14-2013, 05:56 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I would not be opposed to getting Randall Delgado back. Its hard to call a 23 year old kid with a 3.90 ERA and a 6:1 K:BB Ratio a bust....He is a solid young pitcher and I think would be a good Cooper Project.

For those of you clamoring for a quick rebuild, starting with Sale-Delgado and then hoping some of the mid rotation prospects we have like Johnson and Beck work out, along with back end acceptable pitchers like Quintana and Santiago, its a good way to go. It is cost effective and lets you use money and other areas to rebuild the offense.
If you want Delgado, you trade one of our busted prospects for him. Not a real trading chit.
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  #44  
Old 07-14-2013, 07:24 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
If you want Delgado, you trade one of our busted prospects for him. Not a real trading chit.
But why would AZ trade a prospect who has performed well in limited action in the bigs? He has always been more about the projection than what his early stats will say, a young pitcher expected to grow into a number 2 roll.

You know a pitcher who had that same kind of background, one you would easily just write off...... Freaking Johan Santana.

Delgado is not a bust, and AZ is not trading him to us for a busted prospect, because, he is not a busted prospect. This not a Simon Castro or Nestor Molina. This is a 23 year old who has pitched reasonably well in the bigs.

You do not trade Peavy for Delgado straight up, but if you could get a package like Delgado Matt Davidson and Chris Owings or something with Delgado and Stryker Trahan, yah, you have a winner and its a great deal.
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  #45  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:03 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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He's pitched pretty poorly with Arizona, actually. He did okay with Atlanta for 7 games.
But you're right, busted is premature. As part of a package, perhaps. Maybe we can get back the 2nd half of the Jackson trade (was than a horrendous trade, or what). I just don't want any giveaways out of Hahn.
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