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  #46  
Old 07-07-2013, 11:17 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by ChicagoG19 View Post
I ultimately hope this is the year the organization comes out and says we are rebuilding. The fanbase will ultimately be more forgiving if you do that rather than saying you are retooling.
If I hear the word retooling there's gonna be words at Soxfest. We've been retooling this turd of a roster for the last 8 years and it hasn't worked once.

Last edited by blandman; 07-07-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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  #47  
Old 07-07-2013, 11:24 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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This might be the most different last place team in baseball history. Virtually every last place team is in last place because of bad pitching. Now that Danks is back pitching decently, this White Sox pitching staff is good. If Peavy comes back and pitches good this staff will even be better. This team is in last place because it CAN'T HIT. I'm beginning to think that Hahn won't do anything to improve this team this season. Maybe he will keep this pitching staff and then after the season he will sign some free agents to improve the offense. Does it make any sense to trade your strength (the pitchers) for some hitters? Or is it better to keep the pitchers and sign some free agents who can hit?
It's not rare at all, it just doesn't show up in the final numbers. Plenty of last place clubs were in the top ten in baseball in pitching before the deadline. Then reason sets in and bad teams gut whatever they can trade.

For the record, we are 7th in the AL in ERA and 17th in baseball at 3.99. Both rankings are middle of the pack. So it's not like we were in danger of being the first last place team to lead baseball in ERA (if that truly didn't already happen). We're almost an entire run off. Heck, we're even middle of the pack in our own division. I don't get the constant glorification of our pitching. It's not a strength. Sale is a strength. The rest of our pitching without Sale's contribution would be woefully below average. He's the reason we're just league average. Think about that. Without Sale, our team ERA is bottom half. Seriously bottom half (since at 17 we're technically already bottom half).

Last edited by blandman; 07-07-2013 at 11:31 PM.
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  #48  
Old 07-07-2013, 11:32 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
If I hear the word retooling there's gonna be words at Soxfest. We've been retooling this turd of a roster for the last 8 years and it hasn't worked once.
The 2008 team has a banner.

2013-2008<8
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  #49  
Old 07-07-2013, 11:38 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
The 2008 team has a banner.

2013-2008<8
They tried not to.

A tallest midget division championship and no chance in the playoffs really isn't showing how we haven't been a turd the last 8 years.

I think the biggest mistake people make when evaluating the White Sox organization's merits is they look at a philosophy and say "it worked once" because of 2005. In actuality, the philosophy changed after winning that title. 2005 had a core of really good young players and then got veterans assembled through trades and free agency. Since then, we've worked from the veterans who are not core quality and attempted to add more veterans who are not core quality and projects.
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  #50  
Old 07-07-2013, 11:47 PM
delben91 delben91 is offline
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That attitude is more infuriating than the team's play. The team's bad so somehow we should either accept it happily and keep our mouth's shut or leave baseball forever?

We complain because that's what a lot of fans need to be do when it's this bad. Not watching is also an option, but it shouldn't be in the sense that if you aren't going to be positive about this ****ty team you need to go away. Everyone deals with it differently. Just because I can accept how bad they are (and have since before the season) doesn't mean I don't have a lot to say about it.
Eh, I don't know about all that. I mean, if that's how you best deal with the team's ****ty performance then that's fine by me.

I personally am more like sachin where if the team is terrible and making me angry, I choose to refocus my time on something that doesn't make me angry. As a result, I post less. Plus, when I post while frustrated I tend to make ridiculously hyperbolic statements as anyone that was in the Blackhawks playoff threads can attest to. So best all around that I keep my distance.

Anyway, just as it's your "right" to vent your frustration on the site, it's the right of fans like myself and sachin to go do something else and pay less attention in general. Fandom is not a one-size-fits-all entity.
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  #51  
Old 07-07-2013, 11:48 PM
waldo_the_wolf waldo_the_wolf is offline
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Seeing Josh Phegley and Simon Castro have decent MLB debuts this weekend really made me wish the Sox would do what they did in 1999 with "The Kids Can Play". Obviously the biggest difference is that the current farm system is way worse than it was then. Even though you knew the team was going to suck going into that year, at least there was appeal and excitement.
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  #52  
Old 07-07-2013, 11:57 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by delben91 View Post
Eh, I don't know about all that. I mean, if that's how you best deal with the team's ****ty performance then that's fine by me.

I personally am more like sachin where if the team is terrible and making me angry, I choose to refocus my time on something that doesn't make me angry. As a result, I post less. Plus, when I post while frustrated I tend to make ridiculously hyperbolic statements as anyone that was in the Blackhawks playoff threads can attest to. So best all around that I keep my distance.

Anyway, just as it's your "right" to vent your frustration on the site, it's the right of fans like myself and sachin to go do something else and pay less attention in general. Fandom is not a one-size-fits-all entity.
I'm not really venting though, I actually want to talk about this. I like baseball. Even ****ty baseball.
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  #53  
Old 07-08-2013, 01:08 AM
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No matter how bad the Sox are, baseball still beats the **** out of boring NFL training camp news and preseason games. I can't believe people are actually looking forward to that crap. No thanks, I'd rather wash my lawn.

It's too bad the Sox are woefully out of the race before the All-Star break. The summer just isn't as fun without pennant race baseball. Hopefully, the rebuilding period the Sox are about to enter won't last too long.
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  #54  
Old 07-08-2013, 01:35 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
For the record, we are 7th in the AL in ERA and 17th in baseball at 3.99. Both rankings are middle of the pack. So it's not like we were in danger of being the first last place team to lead baseball in ERA (if that truly didn't already happen). We're almost an entire run off. Heck, we're even middle of the pack in our own division. I don't get the constant glorification of our pitching. It's not a strength. Sale is a strength. The rest of our pitching without Sale's contribution would be woefully below average. He's the reason we're just league average. Think about that. Without Sale, our team ERA is bottom half. Seriously bottom half (since at 17 we're technically already bottom half).
Oh come on. The idea that Danks, Santiago, and Quintana are woefully below average is ridiculous. The back of our pen is terrible, and Axe is, well, Axe. That pulls the stats down.
As it is, Santiago is outpitching VErlander, Quintana >Fister and Danks>Porcello. ( I use that example as you claimed that Detoit has 4 top 20 pitchers on its staff). And if we had Peavy back, our starting staff would be farily comparable to Detroit's (edge to Detroit as I'll assume Verlander is going through just a bad patch). Ours pitch in a more run-friendly park, too. And ours are pitching without the mental edge of being on a winning team.

The problem with this team is bad defense, and atrocious hitting. I think we may have one hitter who is above average and he isn't great (Rios). And the back half of the pen. No use inventing weaknesses that don't exist.
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  #55  
Old 07-08-2013, 03:00 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Oh come on. The idea that Danks, Santiago, and Quintana are woefully below average is ridiculous. The back of our pen is terrible, and Axe is, well, Axe. That pulls the stats down.
As it is, Santiago is outpitching VErlander, Quintana >Fister and Danks>Porcello. ( I use that example as you claimed that Detoit has 4 top 20 pitchers on its staff). And if we had Peavy back, our starting staff would be farily comparable to Detroit's (edge to Detroit as I'll assume Verlander is going through just a bad patch). Ours pitch in a more run-friendly park, too. And ours are pitching without the mental edge of being on a winning team.

The problem with this team is bad defense, and atrocious hitting. I think we may have one hitter who is above average and he isn't great (Rios). And the back half of the pen. No use inventing weaknesses that don't exist.
Quintana is not out-pitching Verlander. Verlander has more innings, wins, strikeouts, and has a lower ERA to boot. What metric did you use to come up with that? He's worse in every counting stat.

Detroit has 2 of the top 10 starters in ERA (neither of which is Verlander, the best pitcher on the planet), 3 of the top 16, 4 of the top 26, and they're the only team to have all five starters in the top 40.

Arguing Danks and Peavy argues in the favor of why our pitching isn't league average. We are old and/or have guys with significant injury history/likelihood. That's a huge negative when it comes to how good your pitching is. Has it not also been a reason we are where we are? You can't just casually glance over something when it's that integral to the equation. We suck because of these guys. It isn't' somehow bizarro universe where it's having the opposite effect. Our team ERA is bad.
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  #56  
Old 07-08-2013, 04:10 AM
QCIASOXFAN QCIASOXFAN is offline
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Originally Posted by waldo_the_wolf View Post
Seeing Josh Phegley and Simon Castro have decent MLB debuts this weekend really made me wish the Sox would do what they did in 1999 with "The Kids Can Play". Obviously the biggest difference is that the current farm system is way worse than it was then. Even though you knew the team was going to suck going into that year, at least there was appeal and excitement.
Totally agree. From every place I have looked they are still ranked bottom 5 on the farm. This still hasn't stopped me from following all of our "top" prospects though a few times a week. Thompson looks great and Anderson is looking awesome at A ball so far. Of course Phegley gives me hope.
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  #57  
Old 07-08-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
That attitude is more infuriating than the team's play. The team's bad so somehow we should either accept it happily and keep our mouth's shut or leave baseball forever?

We complain because that's what a lot of fans need to be do when it's this bad. Not watching is also an option, but it shouldn't be in the sense that if you aren't going to be positive about this ****ty team you need to go away. Everyone deals with it differently. Just because I can accept how bad they are (and have since before the season) doesn't mean I don't have a lot to say about it.
Shut up or root for the Dodgers. That's what I was ordered to do. On this issue I can completely agree with you.
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  #58  
Old 07-08-2013, 08:58 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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I said they COULD. That's a huge leap to say they would versus acknowledge they had the talent to do so.

Still, they still look that good? They're in first with one of the best run differentials in baseball. They've got a guy viying for his second triple crown, a rotation with 4 of the best 20 or so pitchers in the league, and one of their pitchers is still undefeated. Their one hole is closer (they've only converted 2/3 of their saves), which they'll probably fill any day now via trade.
And you called the rookie they were going to have close one of the greatest pitching prospects in baseball. You were as wrong as anyone who thought the Sox could contend, but by all means continue posting like you know more than anyone else even though the facts are you don't.
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  #59  
Old 07-08-2013, 09:24 AM
SOXSINCE'70 SOXSINCE'70 is offline
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Bears training camp can't open soon enough.
When do the Hawks start training camp?
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  #60  
Old 07-08-2013, 09:50 AM
DeadMoney DeadMoney is offline
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He might be making too much money to do that; however, he may be wondering if he should have taken a job as a GM elsewhere some days. We'll see what he can do as we hopefully shed players for prospects and $$$ savings.
KW (with Hahn's 'assistance') sure left him with a steaming pile of dog **** to work with.
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