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  #31  
Old 07-07-2013, 07:09 PM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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I had guessed a bit below .500 (78 wins or so), but I never thought they'd sink to playing .400 baseball. Oh well.
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  #32  
Old 07-07-2013, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
As I said before the season, the only people thinking that were glassy eyed-Sox fans, local publications, and the organization. The most optimistic national publications had us below .500, many significantly so. A lot of us on this board stated over and over there was very little chance this team would hit .500 as constructed. Yes, this is the bottomed out version very few thought coming (though some of us did say 100 losses was possible), but that's only a function of the Twins being good enough to pass us (and beat up on us a bit). Whether we lose 100 or just 90, the fact of the matter is there wasn't a plane of existance where .500 was a realistic outcome for this team as assembled. It's time to let go of that thought. This isn't the season that got derailed. The guys on our team are not having career bad seasons. They are having seasons that befit them. This was a bad team to start. There probably aren't a dozen guys on the whole squad that have a role on a contending team. If it wasn't obvious to you before the season, it should be very clear now. Let it go already.
Only a true pessimist would have thought they would field and hit this badly.
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  #33  
Old 07-07-2013, 07:56 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
I thought our pitching would be good enough and along with some sort of an offense, we would be .500. Our pitching has been good enough but the hitting is as we all know is another story, never did I think it could be this bad. Of course we have to add the horrible defense, how could the same team go from the fewest errors to almost the most. I knew that by picking up Keppinger as our only off-season addition we weren't going to catch the Tigers, still I thought .500 was doable.
You traded Morel's defense for Keppinger, who's a butcher, and A.J.'s passable defense for another butcher. You already had a butcher in left. Konerko/Dunn was bad last year and still is. Rios is getting older as well. Alexei's committed a few more errors, but really it's overreaction to blame him for the defensive struggles. He's still getting to a ton more balls than most shortstops.

Old teams are bad at defense. Period. This was an old team that added more bad defenders. What was supposed to happen? It played out exactly as anyone who looked at it objectively would have predicted.

Pitching is half the game, yes, (or mostly yes based on how you view defense) but as history has pointed out time and again having half the game doesn't make you a half good team. You don't win games if you can't score just like you don't win games if you can't stop the other team from scoring at will.

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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Only a true pessimist would have thought they would field and hit this badly.
Only a true optimist could look at this team and think they could win 80+ games.

I'm not trying to do the "I told you so" thing. I'm trying to get people to not still think that, on paper, this team should compete. That wasn't the case before the season, how anyone could think it now is beyond denial. It's painful to listen to. There's so many other instances where teams actually do face bad luck/breaks that kill them. Just because you're bad doesn't mean you're unlucky. Yeah, we've had injuries. But that's the expecation when you build your roster around old, injury prone players.
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  #34  
Old 07-07-2013, 08:22 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
You traded Morel's defense for Keppinger, who's a butcher, and A.J.'s passable defense for another butcher. You already had a butcher in left. Konerko/Dunn was bad last year and still is. Rios is getting older as well. Alexei's committed a few more errors, but really it's overreaction to blame him for the defensive struggles. He's still getting to a ton more balls than most shortstops.

Old teams are bad at defense. Period. This was an old team that added more bad defenders. What was supposed to happen? It played out exactly as anyone who looked at it objectively would have predicted.

Pitching is half the game, yes, (or mostly yes based on how you view defense) but as history has pointed out time and again having half the game doesn't make you a half good team. You don't win games if you can't score just like you don't win games if you can't stop the other team from scoring at will.



Only a true optimist could look at this team and think they could win 80+ games.

I'm not trying to do the "I told you so" thing. I'm trying to get people to not still think that, on paper, this team should compete. That wasn't the case before the season, how anyone could think it now is beyond denial. It's painful to listen to. There's so many other instances where teams actually do face bad luck/breaks that kill them. Just because you're bad doesn't mean you're unlucky. Yeah, we've had injuries. But that's the expecation when you build your roster around old, injury prone players.
Weren't you the guy who said the Tigers would challenge for the best record ever? I love how you talk down to anyone who was optimistic about the Sox even though your win total prediction for the Tigers will be even farther off.
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  #35  
Old 07-07-2013, 08:44 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Weren't you the guy who said the Tigers would challenge for the best record ever? I love how you talk down to anyone who was optimistic about the Sox even though your win total prediction for the Tigers will be even farther off.
I said they COULD. That's a huge leap to say they would versus acknowledge they had the talent to do so.

Still, they still look that good? They're in first with one of the best run differentials in baseball. They've got a guy viying for his second triple crown, a rotation with 4 of the best 20 or so pitchers in the league, and one of their pitchers is still undefeated. Their one hole is closer (they've only converted 2/3 of their saves), which they'll probably fill any day now via trade.
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  #36  
Old 07-07-2013, 08:57 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Alexei's committed a few more errors, but really it's overreaction to blame him for the defensive struggles.
What is your definition of "a few?"

He had 12 errors last year. He is on pace to have 28 this year.
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  #37  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:20 PM
Railsplitter Railsplitter is offline
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(Puts hands over microphone)
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  #38  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:25 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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What is your definition of "a few?"

He had 12 errors last year. He is on pace to have 28 this year.
Considering he's already had two 20 error seasons as well, I submit that while he's certainly had a few more mental lapses than normal this year, last year was in fact the aberration.

His range factor per 9 is still over 4 (which is REALLY good) and his total zone/total fielding runs above average is still also positive. He's committing errors, but he's still a plus defensively versus the average shortstop even after accounting for the errors.
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  #39  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:28 PM
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Considering he's already had two 20 error seasons as well, I submit that while he's certainly had a few more mental lapses than normal this year, last year was in fact the aberration.
You ignored my question.
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  #40  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:36 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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You ignored my question.
It depends?

If a guy is just sitting there with limited range, ala Derrick Jeter, then he better have a .980+ fielding percentage to compensate.

If a guy has some of the best range at his position (and it's a position that it matters, like up the middle), keeping it in the .965 range is acceptable. Alexei's a little lower than that, but he's not way off either. And his range has been just as spectacularly above average as it's always been. There's no reason for someone to come in and look at our defense, point at Alexei, and say "that's the problem". Because he isn't even part of the problem. He's been above average.
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  #41  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:40 PM
MeteorsSox4367 MeteorsSox4367 is offline
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While driving around this afternoon with my 83-year-old Dad, who is a lifelong Sox fan and the reason why I'm also a Sox fan, I attempted to listen to Farmio and DJ's account of the game.

My Dad turns to me and says, "Do me a favor. Turn this (bleep) off. I can't listen to these guys talk about this (bleep)."

White Sox baseball. Pissing off people who have been fans since Ted Lyons was pitching.
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  #42  
Old 07-07-2013, 10:04 PM
sachin sachin is offline
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Just curious, if you hate this team, why waste your time? Does it make you feel better to watch and say "Oh, man, this team stinks! I'm gonna watch the whole game then complain about how much I hate this team and hate watching them!!!"

Yeah, this team is terrible but if you dont want to watch this White Sox baseball, find something else to do.

Ride a bike, read a book, watch Phineas & Ferb...
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  #43  
Old 07-07-2013, 10:12 PM
ChicagoG19 ChicagoG19 is offline
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I ultimately hope this is the year the organization comes out and says we are rebuilding. The fanbase will ultimately be more forgiving if you do that rather than saying you are retooling.
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  #44  
Old 07-07-2013, 10:13 PM
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This might be the most different last place team in baseball history. Virtually every last place team is in last place because of bad pitching. Now that Danks is back pitching decently, this White Sox pitching staff is good. If Peavy comes back and pitches good this staff will even be better. This team is in last place because it CAN'T HIT. I'm beginning to think that Hahn won't do anything to improve this team this season. Maybe he will keep this pitching staff and then after the season he will sign some free agents to improve the offense. Does it make any sense to trade your strength (the pitchers) for some hitters? Or is it better to keep the pitchers and sign some free agents who can hit?
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  #45  
Old 07-07-2013, 10:16 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by sachin View Post
Just curious, if you hate this team, why waste your time? Does it make you feel better to watch and say "Oh, man, this team stinks! I'm gonna watch the whole game then complain about how much I hate this team and hate watching them!!!"

Yeah, this team is terrible but if you dont want to watch this White Sox baseball, find something else to do.

Ride a bike, read a book, watch Phineas & Ferb...
That attitude is more infuriating than the team's play. The team's bad so somehow we should either accept it happily and keep our mouth's shut or leave baseball forever?

We complain because that's what a lot of fans need to be do when it's this bad. Not watching is also an option, but it shouldn't be in the sense that if you aren't going to be positive about this ****ty team you need to go away. Everyone deals with it differently. Just because I can accept how bad they are (and have since before the season) doesn't mean I don't have a lot to say about it.
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